TEST. 

>> GOOD MORNING. WE ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED HERE. WE HAVE A VERY PACKED CALENDAR FOR TODAY AND TOMORROW SO I WANT TO TRY TO KEEP US MOVING ON TIME. MY NAME IS MICHAEL CARTER. I AM THE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF ENVIRONMENT HERE AT THE MARITIME ADMINISTRATION. I AM THE OFFICE OR MY OFFICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MARITIME ENVIRONMENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM. IT HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 2010. OUR GOAL IS TO WORK WITH OUR INDUSTRY PARTNERS, THE REGULATORS, THE REGULATED COMMUNITY, AS WELL AS ACADEMIA TO TRY TO PUSH INNOVATION IN THE MARITIME SECTOR AND TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE EMERGING ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES. JUST A COUPLE QUICK HOUSEKEEPING THINGS. THE RESTROOMS, IF YOU GO OUT THIS DOOR AND TO THE RIGHT, THERE ARE TWO RESTROOMS DOWN HERE. IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF EMERGENCY, FOLLOW THE NEAREST MARAD EMPLOYEE. ACTUALLY, WE WILL GO OUT HERE, GO TO THE LEFT, AND THEN OUT THE ENTRANCE DOWN HERE. IF YOU WILL, GO TO THE BACK AWAY FROM THE BUILDING DOWN TO THE WATERFRONT. THAT IS WHERE WE ALL GATHER. THEY LIKE US TO BE AWAY FROM THE BUILDINGS. WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE MICHAEL RODRIGUEZ. HE IS OUR DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, MARITIME ADMINISTRATOR, TO SAY A FEW WORDS. MICHAEL. [APPLAUSE] 

MICHAEL: GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY. ON BEHALF OF SECRETARY FOX, WELCOME TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND THE MARITIME ADMINISTRATION'S MARINE HI-POWER BATTERY WORKSHOP. FOR THOSE VISITING OUR HEADQUARTERS FOR THE FIRST TIME, SPECIAL WELCOME. FOR THOSE WHO I SEE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT I RECOGNIZE AND HAVE KNOWN FOR A WHILE, WELCOME BACK TO US. FOR THOSE JOINING US ON THE WEB, A SPECIAL WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT. WHAT I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT I WOULD SAY TO WELCOME YOU ALL TODAY, A COUPLE THOUGHTS RAN THROUGH MY MIND. THE FIRST ONE WAS IMAGINING AN ENGINE ROOM WITH NO NOISE AND NEXT TO NO VIBRATION. I WENT TO SEA AS A MARINER FOR 17 YEARS. THERE ARE SOME AROUND THE ROOM WHO KNOW A FEW ENGINEERS WHO PROBABLY DID NOT HEAR A WORD THAT YOU SENT TO THEM BECAUSE OF THE NOISE AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. THAT WAS PROBABLY A GOOD THING AT TIMES BECAUSE IT HELPED THE PEAC KEEP THAT THESE WHEN YOU HAVE A FEW CHOICE FOR THE ENGINEERS -- PEACE WHEN YOU HAVE A FEW CHOICE FOR WORDS FOR THE ENGINEER. I THOUGHT ABOUT SUSTAINABLE SHIPPING. EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM MY BELIEVE. -- TERM, I BELIEVE. WE TALK ABOUT THE MARITIME LABOR CONVENTION, SOLACE AND NORPOL. WHEN I CAME TO THAT IDEA, AND I SAY THAT WITH REGARD TO THOSE WHO ENFORCE THE RULES AND MAKE THE REGULATIONS IN OUR INDUSTRY, I CAME TO THE THOUGHT THAT THERE IS A FIFTH PILLAR, AND THAT IS TECHNOLOGY. TECHNOLOGY COMES FROM SO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM WHO ARE DEVELOPING IT, WORKING IT, THINKING ABOUT IT, INNOVATING. OVER THE HAS 10 YEARS AS AN INDUSTRY, WE HAVE BEGUN TO EXPLORE CLEANER SOLUTIONS FOR POWERING VESSELS AND MORE POWERFUL ENERGY STORAGE OPTIONS. BATTERY TECHNOLOGY HAS REALLY CHANGED SINCE THE OLD LED ACID DAYS. I REMEMBER I HAD A JOB AS AT AN AUTO PARTS LIST READER FILLING ORDERS, AND VERY OFTEN I WOULD HAVE TO FILL IT UP THE BATTERIES SO I RUINED A FEW PAIRS OF JEANS AND MY OLD CONVERSE SNEAKERS. FOR THOSE OF YOU FROM THE EAST COAST, WE CAUGHT UP SNEAKERS. FOR THOSE AROUND THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, WE CALL THEM TENNIS SHOES. I KNOW WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY. NOW, WE HAVE HIGH-POWERED LITHIUM-ION AND OTHER TYPES OF BATTERY TECHNOLOGY. ALL OF THAT IS PROGRESSING VERY RAPIDLY. KEEPING UP WITH ALL OF THIS PROGRESS IS WHAT THIS WORKSHOP WILL BE ALL ABOUT. FOR EXAMPLE, OUR EUROPEAN FRIENDS ARE EXPANDING THEIR USE OF THE TECHNOLOGY. THE TECHNOLOGY EMITS ZERO TOXIC EMISSIONS. WE NEED TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE SIMILAR PROGRESS. FIRST BY WORKING TOGETHER TO BUILD A FRAMEWORK FOR REGULATORY RULES AND CLASSIFICATION THAT WILL SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT, AND WORKING TOGETHER TO ADVANCE THE SCIENCE. WE AT MARAD ARE VERY PROUD AND I AM VERY PROUD OF OUR STAFF FOR THE ROLE THEY PLAY IN HELPING YOU ALL AND ASSIST IN GETTING PEOPLE TOGETHER. I UNDERSTAND WE PUT THIS TOGETHER VERY QUICKLY, AND WE ARE SO VERY PLEASED AT THE TURNOUT AND THE NUMBER OF ALL CAPS WHO ARE JOINING US ON THE WEB -- NUMBER OF FOLKS WHO ARE JOINING US ON THE WEB. WE WILL DISCUSS THE STATE OF TECHNOLOGY, CURRENT SYSTEMS, AND THE CURRENT STATE OF TECHNOLOGY GAPS THAT WILL BE ADDRESSED. WE WILL HEAR FROM CLASSIFICATION SOCIETIES, VESSEL OWNERS AND OPERATORS, PORTS, REGULATORS, AND OUR INTEGRATORS. I AM HOPEFUL I MAY RETURN FOR PART OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS TODAY OR TOMORROW. IN THE MEANTIME, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS. PARTICULARLY, I WANT TO THANK SPEAR POWER SYSTEMS FOR HELPING US ORGANIZE THIS WORKSHOP. ALSO ABS AND ASTM FOR THE REFRESHMENTS. COFFEE IS AS ESSENTIAL AS GOOD IDEAS. WE WANT TO THANK THE PRESENTERS, ESPECIALLY OUR FRIENDS FROM OVERSEAS WHO ARE WITH US TODAY. I WANT TO EXTEND MY THANKS TO JOHN QUINN, FOR HIS LEADERSHIP AND THE HEARTBREAK OF HIS CREW -- HARD WORK OF HIS CREW. TODAY AND TOMORROW, GET TO KNOW WHAT ANOTHER, GET TO KNOW THE MARAD STAFF, AND A GREAT WORKSHOP, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE OUTCOME OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR GETTING US STARTED HERE. I AM GOING TO QUICKLY TURN THIS OVER TO GET THINGS GOING. A COUPLE QUICK POINTS. WE WILL TRY TO HOLD QUESTIONS TO THE END OF THE PANEL. PLEASE, IF YOU WILL SIT THROUGH THE SPEAKERS, WE WILL GET TO THE QUESTIONS AT THE END. THAT WAY WE CAN KEEP THE TIME AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO BEING ON TRACK. LET ME ADD ONE THANK YOU TO THE STAFF AT MARAD WHO HAVE HELPED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN AND PUT IT TOGETHER, PARTICULARLY THE MAN ORCHESTRATING THE ENTIRE PROGRAM. 

>> THANK YOU, MICHAEL. GOOD MORNING. LOOKS LIKE WE ALL HAD A VERY LATE NIGHT YESTERDAY. [LAUGHTER] WELL, IF THIS BEAUTIFUL WEATHER DID NOT WAKE YOU UP, WE ARE GOING TO DO THAT IN THIS WORKSHOP. THOSE OF YOU WHO CAME YESTERDAY, I HOPE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO EXPERIENCE SOME OF THE LIGHT AND SOUNDS OF WASHINGTON, D.C. IT IS A VERY VIBRANT CITY, ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME. AFTER SUNSET, IT IS VERY PRETTY, VERY BEAUTIFUL. THERE ARE TWO CHRISTMAS TREES LIT UP. ONE IS NEAR THE WHITE HOUSE AT THE MALL, AND THE OTHER ONE IS ON THE HILL. THE ONE NEAR THE MALL, IT HAS A BEAUTIFUL DISPLAY UNDERNEATH THE TREE. IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE, VISIT IT FOR THE MEMORIES. COMING BACK TO THE WORKSHOP, WE HAVE A VERY BUSY SCHEDULE SO I WILL REQUEST EVERYONE TO BE ON TIME. I REQUEST THE TIMEKEEPERS TO KEEP A STRAIGHT. THE WAY IT IS STRUCTURED IS THAT WE HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PANELS. THERE ARE SINGLE PRESENTATIONS, GROUP PRESENTATIONS, AND PANEL PRESENTATIONS. SOME OF THE PANEL QUESTION AND ANSWER AFTER THE PANEL DISCUSSION WILL BE AT THE END, AND IT WILL BE MODERATED BY A MODERATOR. BEFORE AND AFTER EACH PANEL DISCUSSION, THERE WILL BE SOME WORKSHOP INTERACTION THAT WILL BE DONE BY MITCH OF SPEAR. FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ATTENDING REMOTELY, YOU CAN SUBMIT YOUR QUESTIONS ONLINE. META@DOT.GOV. WE WILL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS WHEN WE RECEIVE THEM GIVEN THE TIME WE HAVE AVAILABLE. I THINK THAT IS ALL I NEEDED TO SAY. I WILL TURN IT OVER TO MITCH. THANKS. [APPLAUSE] 

MITCH: MORNING EVERYONE. WE ARE GOING TO BE DOING SOME ACTIVITIES AS WE GO THROUGH THE WORKSHOP TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE TALKING TO EACH OTHER AND INTERACTING AND WE START TO TRY TO COALESCE AROUND SOME OBJECTIVES IN THE INDUSTRY MOVING FORWARD. THERE WAS A METHOD TO THE MADNESS. TWO COLOR CODE THOSE, THE BLUE ONES ARE THE ONES WHO OWN AND OPERATE BOATS. GREEN ONES ARE THE PEOPLE WHO PROVIDE TECHNOLOGY TO THE INDUSTRY, BATTERY AND POWER SOLUTIONS INTEGRATORS. RED ARE ARCHITECTS. ORANGE ARE PORTS AND SHIPYARDS. YELLOW IS GOVERNMENT. SILVER IS STANDARDS. THAT INCLUDES THE COAST GUARD AND ABS AND THE MARITIME AUTHORITIES. YOU SHOULD BE POSSIBLY MIXED AT YOUR TABLES. YOU WILL BE FORCIBLY MOVED LATER SO YOU TALK TO NEW FOLKS. WE WILL DO A GROUP INTRODUCTION. I SUGGEST YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE FOLKS AT YOUR TABLE AND GET A CHANCE TO KNOW THEM. WHAT WE WILL DO FOR OUR FIRST QUICK ACTIVITY BEFORE WE LAUNCH INTO JOHN'S BATTERY 101 TALK IS EVERYONE TAKE A POST-IT FROM YOUR TABLE. WE MAY HAVE A FEW EXTRA FOR THE FOLKS AT MARAD. RIGHT ON IT -- WRITE ON IT THE VERY FIRST WORD OR IMAGE THAT COMES TO MIND WHEN YOU HEAR BATTERY-POWERED VESSEL. AS SOON AS YOU GET THAT DONE, WE WILL BRING THEM AND START ON THIS WALL ON THIS BLUE DOOR. I WANT YOU TO WRITE YOUR WORD OR IMAGE. THERE IS 60 OF US. YOU ARE GOING TO BRING IT UP HERE. DO WE HAVE PORTABLE MICS? WE WILL BRING IT UP HERE. HE WILL HAND YOU A MIC, YOU WILL SAY WHAT THE WORK IS, AND WE WILL PUT THEM ALL. -- THEM ON THE WALL. IF THERE IS ENOUGH YOU THAT SAY SNEAKERS, WE WILL THEM TOGETHER. 90 SECONDS. QUICK THING. FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MY. -- MIND. 

>> CLEAN. 

MITCH: COME ON, NEXT PERSON NEXT PERSON. 

>> DURATION. 

MITCH: DURATION. 

>> INTEGRATION. 

MITCH: INTEGRATION. 

>> QUIET. 

MITCH: THE MIC WAS QUIET. 

>> NO SMOKE. 

>> RANGE. 

>> SHIPS. 

>> SAFETY. 

>> CELL. 

>> ZERO EMISSION. 

>> DEMONSTRATION. 

>> LOTS OF BATTERIES NEEDED. 

>> ZERO EMISSION. 

>> ELECTRONS. 

>> HEAVY. 

>> BEAUTIFUL PICTURE. 

>> QUIET. 

>> CLEAN. 

>> CLEAN POWER. 

>> LESS POLLUTION. 

>> SUBMARINES. 

>> SAFETY. 

>> SMOKELESS. 

>> DARK. 

>> TRANSITION. 

>>. ELECTRIC VESSEL -- PURE ELECTRIC VESSEL. 

>> GOOD PICTURE. 

>> > NO SPILLS. 

>> I SAID, WHAT'S UP DOC? THAT IS THE NAME OF A BOAT. 

>> HEAT. 

>> RECHARGEABLE. 

>> NON-POLLUTANTS. 

>> RUNAWAY. 

>> COST. 

>> SLOW. 

>> EFFICIENCY. 

>> CHARGING. 

>> ECONOMIC. 

>> THANK YOU, FOLKS. 

MITCH: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE. I SEE WE DEFINITELY HAVE SOME DIFFERENT THOUGHTS. THIS IS THE FIRST THING ON YOUR MIND THAT YOU WALKED IN WITH THIS MORNING. THERE ARE TWO FOLKS THAT TALKED ABOUT COST AND ECONOMY. THEY ARE RIGHT OVER HERE. A FEW FOR SAFETY. I THOUGHT WE WOULD SEE MORE OF THOSE. SOME FOLKS WHO FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE CHALLENGES OF THE TECHNOLOGY. RANGE, DURATION, WEIGHT, EFFICIENCY. ONE PERSON FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE CAPABILITIES THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE WITH ELECTRIC BOATS VERSUS REGULAR DIESEL BOATS. TORQUE. WE HAD QUIET. ANOTHER INTANGIBLE VALUE. THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT. AS WE GO THROUGH THE CONFERENCE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HIT EVERYONE'S INDIVIDUAL GOALS AND OBJECTIVES. I AM CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE DIFFERENT THINGS ON YOUR MIND WHEN YOU LEAVE TOMORROW THAN WHAT YOU DID WHEN YOU ARRIVE. WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO NOW IS AS A TABLE, TALK TO THE 6-8 PEOPLE YOU'RE SITTING WITH AND WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU FEEL AS A GROUP AT YOUR TABLE THE NUMBER ONE BARRIER TO ADOPTING THIS TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY IN TODAY'S PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT, WHETHER THAT IS WHERE BOTH, FERRIES, NAVAL APPLICATIONS. AS A GROUP, TAKE 30 SECONDS TO A MINUTE. TALK TO YOURSELVES AND WRITE DOWN THE NUMBER ONE BARRIER TO ADOPTING THE TECHNOLOGY TODAY. HOPEFULLY YOU ARE COMING TO SOME CONSENSUS. WE WILL WALK AROUND AND HAVE ONE PERSON FROM YOUR TABLE SHARE YOUR BARRIER WITH THE REST OF THE GROUP. YOU CAN RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU ARE READY TO GO. 

>> GOOD MORNING. AT THE TABLE HERE, WE HAD A COUPLE OF THINGS. EDUCATION AND SAFETY. THE REALLY CULTURAL SHIFT REQUIRED FROM NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND CHANGE IN THINKING. 

>> ANYBODY READY? 

>> IT IS COST. COST, BASICALLY. TWO OO EXPENSIVE. 

>> WHO IS READY? YOU GUYS READY? 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> OUR MAIN ISSUE AT THIS TABLE WAS DUTY CYCLE. 

>> AS YOU GUYS TALK, CAN YOU GUYS INTRODUCE YOURSELF? SAY YOUR NAME AND WHAT YOU DO. 

>> ARE YOU READY? 

>> BACK HERE AT TABLE 14. [LAUGHTER] MY NAME IS BOB. WE HAVE ACTUALLY OPERATED A LITHIUM POWERED HYBRID BOAT FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS NOW. ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH THE COAST GUARD AND EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ON A REGULATORY ISSUE WE WORKED ON CONSTRUCTION WITH THE U.S. COAST GUARD. THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND WORKING FROM LEAD ACID BATTERY REGULATIONS TO LITHIUM REGULATIONS. ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES WE FOUND HIS HUMAN RESOURCES. WE HAD ISSUES OF FEAR. WE HAD A BOARD MEMBER IN THE COMPANY WE WERE BUILDING THE VOTE FOR READ IN A SEVEN-PAGE LEGAL DOCUMENT CLAIMING WE WERE GOING TO KILL 10,000 KIDS BY USING LITHIUM BATTERIES ON A BOAT OR A RESEARCH BOAT. NUMBER TWO, WE FOUND THAT THE BOAT OPERATORS, MANY OF THEM OPERATE THEIR VOTES BY SOUND. WHEN WE TAKE AWAY THAT SOUND AND THEY DO NOT HEAR THE ENGINE RPM MOVED TO A DIFFERENT PITCH, THEY WERE CONFUSED ON HOW TO OPERATE ABOUT. SAME THING ON TORQUE AND HOW THE BOAT MANEUVERED USING A HYBRID OR ELECTRIC POWERED MOTOR TO DRIVE THE PROP. HUMAN RESOURCES, TRAINING, AND FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN OR WHAT'S INSIDE AND -- WHAT SAMSUNG AND BOEING HAD DONE TO US. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> WE TALKED ABOUT TWO THINGS. COST AND SAFETY. OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF BATTERY NEEDS TO GO ON TO POWER A BOAT. THAT IS PROBABLY A SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT IN BATTERY. THE MORE ENERGY YOU PUT IN A CONCENTRATED AREA OR VOLUME, ANY KIND OF EVENT AS WAS JUST MENTIONED OF THE BOEING OR HOVERBOARD EVENTS, THOSE CAN BE REALLY BIG. SAFETY HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. 

>> THANK YOU. YOU GUYS READY? 

>> JAY GARDNER. WE HAD A COUPLE THAT WE DISCUSSED. HEAT AND CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE WAS A CONCERN. ALSO, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE PEOPLE THAT WILL PURCHASE THESE VESSELS, WHETHER THEY ARE PUBLIC AGENCIES OR PRIVATE COMPANIES, NOBODY WANTS TO BUY SOMETHING THAT IS A FAILURE. THERE IS A REAL CONCERN IN THE MARKETPLACE AS TO WHETHER THESE WILL BE SUCCESSFUL. 

>> THANK YOU, SIR. 

>> MORNING. MY NAME IS TIM. OUR TABLE, I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME BECAUSE WE WERE JUST GETTING GOING, BUT WE WERE LOOKING AT OUR DENSITY. HOW TO GET THIS FROM SMALLER VESSELS TO A LARGER VESSEL APPLICATION. WE ECHO WHAT A LOT OF FOLKS ARE SAYING ON SAFETY. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> MY NAME IS CHUCK. OUR TABLE GOING THROUGH SIMILAR DISCUSSION AMONG A LOT OF OTHER THINGS. THE KEY THING IS THE INTEGRATION, THE BALANCING OF ALL THE OTHER ITEMS THAT WE HAVE TO IMPLEMENT, THE REGULATIONS, RANGE, WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THE APPLICATIONS, AND SAFETY , AND COST. THE BALANCING, THE INTEGRATION IS THE CHALLENGE FOR US. 

>> GOOD. THANK YOU. DID I LEAVE OUT ANYONE? 

>> WE TALKED ABOUT PERFORMANCE. THERE WAS SOME QUESTION AS TO THE PERCEPTION OR REALITY OF EQUIVALENT PERFORMANCE TO CONVENTIONAL TECHNOLOGIES. COST WAS ONE THAT CAME UP. OVERALL COST, NOT JUST BATTERY COST. IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT DIESEL VERSUS ELECTRIC, YOU NOW HAVE TOTAL SYSTEM COSTS. SWITCHGEAR MOTOR GOING TO ELECTRIC VESSEL WHEN THE CONVENTIONAL WOULD BE DIRECT DRIVE DIESEL. DURATION OF THE OPERATION. DURATION OF THE BATTERIES. LIFETIME OF THE BATTERIES. THAT LEADS BACK INTO COST. OF COURSE, SAFETY. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> INSUFFICIENT ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. 

>> DID YOU GET THAT? 

>> COST, AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER? 

>> INFRASTRUCTURE. 

>> ANYBODY ELSE? THAT IS IT. 

MITCH: THANK YOU. WE HAVE 14 TABLES. MAYBE NINE. WE WOUND UP WITH 20 ITEMS SO I APPRECIATE YOU FIXING IN ON THE KEY BARRIERS. HERE IS THE THINGS WE WANT TO EDUCATE OURSELVES, WHICH IS THE ECOSYSTEM OF THIS EMERGING SPACE, ON OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS AND TRY TO KNOCK OFF SOME OF THESE AND ADDRESS THEM. WE SEE SAFETY IS A MAJOR CONCERN. COST ALSO. THERE IS A GROUP OF CULTURAL ITEMS WE TALKED ABOUT. PEOPLE HAVING TO LEARN HOW TO DRIVE A DIFFERENT WAY AND NOT LISTEN TO THE MOTOR. PEOPLE BEING AFRAID OF THE TECHNOLOGY. WE COULD PROBABLY ALSO GROUP THOSE TOGETHER WITH THE OTHER ONE AT THE BOTTOM, WHICH IS EDUCATION OR AWARENESS AND RISK AVERSION. WE SAW PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT SPECIFIC TECHNICAL ACTIVITIES OR CAPABILITIES WITH THE HEAT ISSUES, CHARGE RATES, INTEGRATION WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE. A SPECIFIC WILL BREAK OUT OF THAT, WHICH IS YOU CANNOT DRIVE THEM AS FAST OR AS FAR AS YOU CAN A DIESEL VESSEL. WILL PUT THEM ON THE WALL SO WE CAN REMEMBER THEM. WHAT I WILL DO RIGHT NOW IS YOU NEED TO TALK AMONG YOURSELVES. IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC GOAL THAT YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL HAVE BROUGHT WITH YOU TODAY THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HIT AN ADDRESS BEFORE YOU GO HOME. SOMETHING YOU WANT TO LEARN. IF THERE IS SOMETHING YOU ARE LOOKING TO GET OUT OF THIS CONFERENCE, RAISE YOUR HAND, AND WE WILL GROUP THOSE THE SAME WAY WE DID THE BARRIERS. ANYBODY? NO ONE? 

>> THE REASON FOR THE MICROPHONE IS SO THE FOLKS ON THE PHONE CAN HEAR US. WE CAN HEAR IT GREAT IN THE ROOM, BUT THEY CANNOT HEAR US WITHOUT THE MICROPHONE. ANY OTHER GOALS? 

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT U.S. COAST GUARD IS ALSO WRITING A POLICY LETTER ON HOW TO HANDLE BATTERIES FOR MARITIME USE. IT WILL BE GOOD TO HAVE AN UPDATE ON WHAT IS HAPPENING. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> THEY WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION I THINK TOMORROW. SOMETIME TOMORROW, RIGHT? ANYBODY ELSE? 

>> MY NAME IS BEN. CURIOUS TO SEE HOW BIG A SHIP YOU HAVE IN MIND TO MAKE THEM OPERATE ON BATTERIES. I KNOW THERE ARE SOME SMALL BOATS, BUT HOW BIG ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? 

>> PARIS, THE BIGGEST THING IS THE PERSPECTIVE EVERYBODY BRINGS. THE TABLE I AM SITTING AT IS REPRESENT ATIVE OF THAT. THAT IS WHAT I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO. 

>> I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN ABOUT FIRE SAFETY, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO PUT OUT A LITHIUM BATTERY? THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A CONSENSUS ON THAT. 

>> THANKS. 

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CONSISTENT DEFINITION OF WHAT A HIGH-POWERED BATTERY ACTUALLY IS IN TERMS OF RATE OR POWER TO ENERGY RATIO AND IMPLEMENTATION OF DESIGN. 

>> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? 

MITCH: I WILL MOVE THESE AROUND AS WE GET STARTED SO YOU CAN REFERENCE BACK TO THEM. FIRE SAFETY, GENERAL SAFETY, SOME TECHNOLOGY GOALS, DEFINITION OF WHAT A SPECIFIC TYPE OF BATTERY IS, THE STATE OF THE TECHNOLOGY, COAST GUARD POLICY. I KNOW YOU WILL BE LEARNING ABOUT POLICIES FROM OTHER AUTHORITIES AROUND THE WORLD. EXAMPLES OF THE TYPE OF VESSELS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. CASE STUDIES, WHICH WE WILL BE ADDRESSING THIS AFTERNOON AND TOMORROW MORNING. AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVE. WE WILL LAUNCH INTO THE NEXT TALK. I THINK YOU ARE THE MODERATOR FOR OUR NEXT SET OF SPEAKERS. 

>> IS THE THAT IS THE ONE. 

>> OUR SPEAKER FOR THE NEXT PRESENTATION IS DR. JOHN WARNER, DMPMP. HE IS AN EXPERIENCED SALES MANAGEMENT AND MARKETING EXECUTIVE. AS CHIEF SALES AND MARKETING OFFICER, DR. WARNER HAS GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR BOTH SALES AND MARKETING ACTIVITIES. IN HIS PREVIOUS ROLES, HE SERVED AS VP OF SALES AND MARKETING , DIRECTOR OF SALES AND MARKETING , DIRECTOR OF PRODUCT MANAGEMENT FOR BOSTON POWER, AND HOLD MULTIPLE MANAGEMENT ROLES AT GENERAL MOTORS. HE RECEIVED HIS DR. OF MANAGEMENT ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP DEGREE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX. HIS MBA INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS AND LEADERSHIP STUDIES IN INDUSTRIAL MANAGEMENT FROM BAKER COLLEGE. HE SERVES AS THE CHAIR FOR THE SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS, BATTERY SIZE STANDARDIZATION COMMITTEE. IN 2015, DR. WARNER PUBLISHED HIS BOOK, THE HANDBOOK OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES. DR. WARNER. [APPLAUSE] DR. 

WARNER: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE WARM WELCOME THIS MORNING. I AM GLAD TO BE HERE. I HOLD MULTIPLE ROLES IN THE BATTERY INDUSTRY. ONE OF THEM IS WITH THE NATIONAL ADVANCED BATTERY TECHNOLOGY. I WILL DO A BATTERIES 101 INTRODUCTION. IF YOU ARE A BATTERY EXPERT, YOU GET A COFFEE. THIS MIGHT NOT BE THAT EXCITING FOR YOU, BUT IT WILL HELP FILL SOME OF THE MORNING UP. IS THERE A QUICKER FOR ME -- CLICKER FOR ME? TO START OFF, THIS IS A GENERAL INSTRUCTION OF BATTERIES. THERE WE GO. ELECTRICITY IS INHERENTLY MYSTERIOUS. IT IS ONE FACTOR THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A SENSE TO DETECT. SIGHT DETECT SLIGHT, HEARING TO TEXT SOUND, NOSE DETECTS SMELL. WE USE INSTRUMENTS TO DETECT AND MEASURE ELECTRICITY. ALL OF THE INSTRUMENTS ARE USING THE METRIC SYSTEM AND VARIOUS TYPES OF THINGS WHICH YOU WILL SEE GOING FORWARD TO DO THOSE. I LIKE TO USE THIS SLIDE A LOT. WHY DO WE HAVE A JOB? ELECTRICITY MAKES MODERN LIFE POSSIBLE. LOOKING AROUND AT YOUR HOME TODAY AND ALL OF THE THINGS WE ARE HEARING, WE HAVE LAPTOPS, 1, 2, 3 CELL PHONES. EVERY ONE OF THOSE IS BATTERED OUR ENEMIES. -- POWERED BY BATTERIES. AND IS DIFFICULT TO STORE IN HIGH QUANTITIES. WE USE LIQUID AND GAS FUELS. WE USE HYDROELECTRIC DAMS, COMPRESSED AIR, PUMPED WATER, AND WE HAVE USED FOR A WHILE BATTERIES. ONE MISCONCEPTION I LIKE TO CLEAR UP IS, AND WHILE I REFER TO THEM AND MOST EVERYONE DOES AS ENERGY STORAGE DEVICES, TECHNICALLY, BATTERIES DO NOT STORE ENERGY. THEY STORE THE CHEMICALS WHICH ARE CONVERTED TO FORM THE ENERGY. IT IS AN ENERGY CONVERSION DEVICE, AND ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE -- NOT AN ENERGY STORAGE DEVICE. THERE IS GENERALLY TWO KINDS OF BATTERIES WE SEE. IN THE APPLICATIONS WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT TODAY AND TOMORROW, THEY WILL ENTIRELY BE THE SECONDARY BATTERIES. THE TWO TYPES OF BATTERIES ARE PRIMARY BATTERIES, WHICH ARE THE THINGS YOU WILL SEE AROUND YOUR HOUSE. THESE ARE DISPOSABLE. THEY MEET YOU WILL THROW THEM AWAY -- THEY MEAN YOU WILL THROW THEM AWAY. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SECONDARY BATTERIES THAT WILL BE REUSED AND LAST UP TO FIVE OR 10 YEARS OR EVEN LONGER IN SOME APPLICATIONS. IT STORES THE ENERGY OR ALLOWS THE ENERGY FROM EXTERNAL SOURCES TO BE MAINTAINED. IT COMES IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT FORMS. IT POWERS EVERYTHING FROM CL ICKERS TO SMARTPHONES TO VESSELS. I KNOW WE HAVE SOME FOLKS THAT HAVE DONE SOME EXCELLENT LARGE VESSELS OUT THERE WITH HUGE SYSTEMS. SMALL SYSTEMS TO MEGA SYSTEMS POWERED BY SECONDARY BATTERIES. ONE OF THE THINGS I HEARD THIS MORNING, AND I LIKE TO USE THE NEXT SLIDE. IT IS A FUN ONE FOR ME. WE ARE STILL TRYING TO GET OVER IT, BUT BACK IN ABOUT 1930, THIS WAS FOUND IN MODERN DAY BACK BAGHDAD. THIS WAS DEVELOPED AROUND 250 B. C., MORE THAN 2,200 YEARS AGO. IT WAS A CLAY JAR THAT HAD A COPPER CYLINDER INSIDE IT WITH AN IRON ROD. IT WAS FILLED WITH AN ACID LIQUID SIMILAR TO VINEGAR OR A SALTWATER BRINE. AS FAR AS WE CAN GUESS, IT WAS ABLE TO PRODUCE TW VOLTS. -- TWO VOLTS. OUR BEST GUESS TODAY IS THE PROBABLY USE IT FOR JEWELRY. THAT HAVE BEEN BATTERIES AROUND FOR OVER 2000 YEARS. IT HAS ONLY BEEN THE LAST 100 YEARS THAT THE MODERNIZED THE TECHNOLOGY AND SOCIETY, BUT IT IS NOT THAT TECHNOLOGY -- NEW OF A TECHNOLOGY. SOME EARLIER BATTERIES CAME IN THE MID-1700S. 1750, TWO SCIENTISTS INDEPENDENTLY IN EUROPE CAME UP WITH THE LATEST JAR USED TO STORE ELECTRICITY. A GERMAN CLERIC AND A DUTCH SCIENTIST , BOTH OF THOSE DEVELOPED THAT. YOU HAD A GLASS JAR WHICH HAD LEAD ON THE OUTSIDE AND INSIDE WITH A BRASS ROD GOING INTO IT AND A LIQUID ON THE INSIDE. WHEN THEY ADDED AN ELECTRIC CHARGE TO IT, THEY WERE IT WOULD TO STORE THE STATIC ELECTRICITY FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME. THE NEXT BIG INTRODUCTION CAME ABOUT 50 YEARS LATER. WE WILL RECOGNIZE HIS NAME BECAUSE WE USE HIS NAME EVERY DAY. ALESSANDRA. VOLTA. HE WAS STACKING COPPER AND ZINC DISCS, WHICH WAS SEPARATED WITH A CLOTH SOAKED IN BRINE. AND ACTED AS A SEPARATOR. THE BRINE IS THE ELECTROLYTE. A PICTURE OF ONE OF HIS DEVICES FROM A MUSEUM. HE COULD STORE ENERGY UNTIL THE METALS FULLY DISSOLVED. THAT WAS AROUND 1799. THAT WAS WHERE THE TERM VOLTS COMES FROM, THE WORK HE DID AROUND 1800. THE OTHER INTERESTING POINT I WANT TO MAKE, AND IS PROBABLY ALWAYS A GOOD ONE, IS WHERE THE TERM BATTERY COME FROM? ANYBODY KNOW? YOU WILL ENJOY THIS. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN COMPARED A GROUP OF LADEN JARS ASSEMBLED TOGETHER TO A BATTERY OF KITTENS, HENCE THE TERM BATTERY. -- BATTER OF CANNONS, HENCE THE TERM BATTERY. AGAIN, ABOUT 50 YEARS AFTER THE LAST ONE OR 50 YEARS LATER AFTER THE VOLTA PILE, WE FOUND A FRENCH INVENTOR DEVELOPED THE FIRST LEAD ACID BATTERY. 1850 IS WHEN THIS WAS CREATED. PICTURES OF SIMILAR THINGS THERE. 167 YEARS AGO NOW. THIS IS THE SAME BASIC TECHNOLOGY THAT START YOUR CAR TODAY. IT HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT. IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER AND MORE EFFICIENT, BUT YOU HAVE LEAD COATED PLATES SITTING IN A SOLUTION. THE SAME TECHNOLOGY THAT START YOUR CAR TODAY. LEAD ACID HAS CONTINUED TO BE A SOLID CHEMISTRY AND VERY LOW COST BECAUSE IT IS SUCH HIGH-VOLUME TODAY, BUT IT IS ALSO WITH LIMITATIONS ON IT. THAT TAKES US TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES. I COME FROM GENERAL MOTORS. WE LIKE TO THINK OF THE ONE LAUNCHED IN THE 1900'S IS ONE OF THE FIRST, BUT IT WAS NOT. WILLIAM MORRISON INTO ONE, I WENT, IN FRONT OF A VEHICLE THAT -- IOWA, BUILT 11 OF THEM. HE USED THE VEHICLE TO DEMONSTRATE HIS LEAD ACID BATTERY AND EVOLVED INTO A FULLY ELECTRIC CAR. HE HAD 24 LEAD ACID BATTERIES IN THE VEHICLE PRODUCING 48 GOALS AND 100 -- 48 VOLTS AT TWO TONS. EVENTUALLY, HE SOLD THE VEHICLE TO THE AMERICAN BATTERY COMPANY OF CHICAGO SO THEY CAN DEMONSTRATE THEIR BATTERY TECHNOLOGY AT THE 1893 COLUMBIA EXPOSITION IN CHICAGO. TECHNICALLY, THAT IS THE FIRST COMMERCIAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE IN THE UNITED STATES. IF WE GO TO EUROPE, THERE WERE ELECTRIC VEHICLES 10 OR 15 YEARS THERE. THEY DID A LOT OF WORK WITH ELECTRIC BICYCLES AND OTHER AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATIONS BETWEEN 1850 AND 1900. AS WE GET TO THE END OF THE HISTORY LESSON, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE COMING OUT OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME ELECTRIC VEHICLES HAD LARGE MARKET SHARE. BETWEEN 1890 AND 1920, 1 THIRD OF THE MARKET WAS ELECTED VEHICLES. A THIRD OF THEM WERE INTERNAL COMBUSTIO. THERE WAS A LOT OF STEAM POWERED AUTOMOTIVE TRANSPORTATION. WHAT HAPPENED IN 19101940 THAT SPARKED THE RANGE? TWO THINGS. THIS ORGANIZATION IS THIS POSSIBLE FOR SOME OF THEM. THE INTERSTATE SYSTEM. YOU CANNOT GET FROM CITY TO CITY OR A CROSS COUNTRY OTHER THAN ON BACK ROADS. WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF THAT, YOU NEED A LONGER RANGE. ELECTRIC VEHICLES WERE NOT ABLE TO ACHIEVE THOSE, SO THEY STARTED DRIVING THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES. WITH WORLD WAR I, THAT PUSHED TO INTERNAL COMBUSTION BECAUSE YOU COULD GET MORE EASILY LIQUID FUELS ON THE BATTLEFIELD THAN YOU COULD ELECTRICITY. THE EARLY CENTURY HAD A PRETTY GOOD MARKET SHARE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES. IT DIED DOWN TO ALMOST NOTHING AND IS NOW STARTING TO COME BACK AGAIN. ANOTHER QUIZ. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE LARGEST ENERGY SOURCE  DEVICE IN NORTH AMERICA I? THIS GROUP HAS TO KNOW THIS ONE. LAKE SUPERIOR, MICHIGAN, HURON, AND ERIE. THAT IS THE LARGEST STORAGE DEVICE IN NORTH AMERICA. TESLA ACTUALLY DESIGN THE FIRST POWERPOINTE -- DESIGNED THE FIRST POWER PLANT IN 1895. IT WAS THE FIRST HYDROELECTRIC POWER PLANT IN THE WORLD WITH 50,000 HORSEPOWER AND COULD TRANSMIT POWER THROUGH A LESSON THOUSAND VOLTS OF THE 20,000 MILES. THAT KIND OF TAKES OUT THE HISTORY. WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY? THIS CHART IS AN EXAMPLE OF ENERGY DENSITY. ON THE BOTTOM, UNITS OF ENERGY PER WEIGHT. THE LEFT IS THE VERTICAL AXIS. LEAD ACID FALLS JUST AROUND 100 WATT HOUR PER LITER. AGAIN, RELATIVELY LOW ACID. NIC CADMIUM CAME OUT IN 1980, 1981. IT WAS A HUGE LEAP AHEAD. IN 1981 OR 1982, THE MODERN BATTERY WHICH POWERS HYBRID VEHICLES TODAY WAS INTRODUCED. IT PUSHED PER VOLUME AND PER WEIGHT TO THE RIGHT. THAT STATE UNTIL -- STAYED UNTIL 1991. SONY INTRODUCED THE FIRST COMMERCIAL LITHIUM-ION BATTERY. TODAY, THE LITHIUM-ION EXTENDS FROM 100 TO THE LOW 200'S, 2 20'S. LITHIUM-ION AND THE POLYMER LITHIUM-ION, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT FORM FACTOR, HAS A LITTLE HIGHER ENERGY DENSITY BECAUSE OF THE PACKAGING MATERIAL OF THE CELLS. LITHIUM METAL HAS EVEN HIGHER ENERGY, BUT IS NOT TYPICALLY USED IN WHICH ARTICLE BATTERIES TODAY. SECONDARY BATTERIES DO NOT TEND TO USE THIS. HOW ARE WE GO? THAT IS THE MILLION-DOLLAR QUESTION THAT SCIENTISTS ARE WORKING ON TODAY. MOST SCIENTISTS THINK THE MAXIMUM ENERGY DENSITY LITHIUM-ION IN ITS CURRENT FORM WILL BE BETWEEN 300 AND 400 WATT HOURS PER KILOGRAM. COULD BE MORE ON THE VOLUMETRIC STAND. THAT DEPENDS ON THE MATERIALS COMING OUT. BEYOND THAT, WE WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR CHEMISTRIES, BEYOND LITHIUM-ION. WHAT COMES NEXT? YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE. THERE COULD BE AIR BATTERIES OR THE NEW SULFUR BATTERIES. THERE WILL BE SOMETHING ELSE. AT SOME POINT, THEY WILL BE ONE MORE CIRCLE TO THE RIGHT OF LITHIUM-ION. IS A LITTLE TOO EARLY TO SAY WHEN IT WILL BE TODAY. YOU WILL NOT SEE THAT UNTIL 2025 AND BEYOND WE START SEEING THE FIRST INTRODUCTIONS OF WHATEVER THAT CHEMISTRY AND TO BEING -- ENDS UP BEING. BASICALLY WHAT IT WANTED TO SHOW YOU HERE IS A COMPARISON OF SOME OF THE MODERN CHEMISTRIES. YOU HAVE SIX DIFFERENT CHEMISTRIES. THERE WERE SIX DIFFERENT CHEMISTRIES THAT WE TALK ABOUT. WE HAVE MMC OR MCM DEPENDING HOW IT IS USED. THAT WE CAN BE VERY HIGH ENERGY DENSITY. 3.7 VOLTS. BETWEEN 150 AND 240 WATT HOURS. VERY HIGH ENERGY DENSITY. VERY GOOD BALANCE OF POWER. COST HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN A CHALLENGE WITH IT, BUT IT IS COMING DOWN. NCA ALSO RUNS AT ABOUT 3.6 VOLTS . A LITTLE HIGHER ENERGY DENSITY. 200, 260 WATT HOURS BUT YOU CAN SEE A DROP OFF IN THE CYCLE LIFE, AND IT IS NOT AS CAPABLE FOR FAST CHARGES. IT IS SOME SAFETY CONCERNS. MOST OF THE AUTOMOTIVE APPLICATIONS HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM PURE NCA BATTERIES WITH CONCERN ABOUT SAFETY. MOST OF THE PEOPLE USING THEM ARE USING BLENDED MATERIALS TODAY. LITHIUM-ION PHOSPHATE, A LITTLE LOWER VOLTAGE. AROUND 2.2 TO 2.3 VOLTS. ENERGY DENSITY 90 TO 100 WATT HOURS. IT IS ENTIRELY FEASIBLE FOR 3000 CYCLES. IT IS DISCUSSED AS A SAFER CHEMISTRY AND HAS GOOD HIGH-POWER APPLICATION. ON THE DISADVANTAGE SIZE, YOU NEED MORE CELLS TO ACHIEVE THE SAME VOLTAGE. I DO NOT LIKE TO SAY ONE CHEMISTRY IS SAFER THAN ANOTHER. SOME ARE MORE ACCEPTING OF ABUSIVE CONDITIONS. IN MY LIFE, THAT HAS BEEN A MORE ACCURATE WAY TO SAY IT. I CAN MAKE ANY BATTERY FAIL. IS NOT THE MATTER OF IS THE CHEMISTRY SAFER BUT HOW DO YOU TREAT IT AND HOW DO YOU MANAGE IT? LMO, HIGH-ENERGY DENSITY. HIGH-VOLTAGE. MEDIUM ENERGY DENSITY. IT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN A RELATIVELY HIGH-POWERED CHEMISTRY. AND LITTLE EXPENSIVE, BUT SHORT LIFE. WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE DOING WITH LMO'S IT TRANSPORTATION IS USING IT TO MIX WITH OTHER CHEMISTRIES. I WAS GIVE DOWN TO ONE MORE. LCO HAS BEEN THE MAINSTAY OF THE PORTABLE POWER INDUSTRY FOR YEARS. 306 VOLTS. 150-200 WATT HOURS PER KILOGRAM. BECAUSE OF THE COBOL BEING SO EXPENSIVE, IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE MATERIALS. ONE OF THE LARGE -- MO ST OF A LARGE APPLICATIONS HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM IT. IN ALL OF THESE CASES, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE CATHOTE SITE. -- SIDE. THE ONE I DID NOT MENTION WAS LOT. -- LTO. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INUIT MATERIAL -- ANNOTE MATERIAL. LTO IS LOWER VOLTAGE SIMILAR TO IRON PHOSPHATE. ENERGY DENSITY IS MUCH LOWER. PROBABLY MORE COMPATIBLE WITH NICKEL METAL. REALLY GREAT AT PAST POWER, SO IF YOU NEED A FAST CHARGE, LTO IS THE CHEMISTRY FOR YOU. YOU GET A LOT OF ENERGY VERY FAST. AGAIN, I WILL SPEND A MINUTE ON THIS CHART, BUT THIS TAKES SOME OF THOSE CHEMISTRIES AND KIND OF GIVES A VISUAL COMPARISON. I LIKE MMC BECAUSE I LOOK AT IT AS A VERY WELL-BALANCED. CHEMISTRY. IT KIND OF HITS ALL OF. THE OTHER ONES DO BETTER IN SOME OF THE AREAS . LMO, BETTER ON ENERGY AND POWER BUT NOT AS GOOD ONLINE. LTO DOES VERY WELL ON PERFORMANCE, SAFETY, AND LIFE, BUT COST AND ENERGY, VERY LOW. A GOOD WAY TO SEE VISUALLY THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CHEMISTRIES. I WILL NOT SPEND A TON OF TIME ON THIS ONE. BLUE ARE THE COMMERCIAL CHEMISTRIES TODAY. CARBON, LTI O, THEY ARE ALL IN PRODUCTION TODAY IN VARIOUS SCALES FOR VARIOUS MANUFACTURERS. MOVING TO THE RIGHT, ALL THE MANUFACTURERS ARE LOOKING AT VARIOUS CHEMISTRIES TO ADD TO THE ANNOTE SIDE. THAT HAS TRANSITIONED FROM TIN INTO SILICON. WE ARE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF SILICON AND SOLID LITHIUM AND ANNOTES. THAT DRIVES THE HOURS PER CC CONTINUALLY UP AS WE GO THAT WAY. THAT IS PROBABLY THE AREA WHERE THERE IS THE MOST RESEARCH BEING DONE RIGHT NOW OTHER THAN NEW CHEMISTRIES ALTOGETHER. KIND OF WRAPPING UP, MOST MANUFACTURERS OFFER MULTIPLE DESIGNS. WE ARE NO DIFFERENT. WE OFFER A SERIES OF CELLS USING BLENDED MMC CHEMISTRIES. FINALLY, I CANNOT STOP WITHOUT A SHAMELESS PLUG. I PUBLISHED A BOOK LAST YEAR. ALL OF THIS INFORMATION WAS A LOT MORE IS IN THERE. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE BATTERY INDUSTRY AND WANT TO LEARN ABOUT BATTERIES, THIS IS THE INTRO TO BATTERIES BOOK. IS DEVELOPED FOR THE REST OF US WHO ARE NOT BATTERY ENGINEERS. EVEN STOP BY AND LOOK AT IT ANYTIME TODAY. WITH THAT, THAT WRAPS UP MY PRESENTATION. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU. VERY INFORMATIVE. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS DR. HILL. HE IS FORMER PRESIDENT AND CURRENT CHAIRMAN OF NAT BATTERY INTERNATIONAL AND A STORAGE LEADER. AS PHYSICAL INVESTIGATOR FOR RND PROGRAMS THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, AND THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION, DR. HILL HAS SOLVED SIGNIFICANT STORAGE ENERGY PROBLEMS ACROSS SECTIONS. DR. HILL HAS BEEN AN ADVISOR TO STAKEHOLDERS ON BATTERY SAFETY AND ENERGY STORAGE PERFORMANCE. ALSO LED THE NORTH AMERICAN JOY INDUSTRY GUIDELINE FOR INDUSTRIAL STORAGE. IN THE OIL AND GAS SECTOR. DR. HILL'S EXPERTISE EXPANDS MODELS AND PROJECT DEVELOPMENT SAFETY ISSUES AND INTEGRATION. AND LONG-TERM PERFORMANCE TO SUPPORT WARRANTIES. IN HIS TENURE, DR. HILL LAUNCHED BATTERY STRATEGY DEVELOPMENT WHICH ALLOWED MEMBERS TO SPEAK FROM COMPETITIVE RESEARCH PROGRAMS TO AID MEMBERS WITH THE RESULT -- TO SOLVE COMMON INDUSTRY PROBLEMS. IN 2011, DR. HILL -- FOR HIS WORK IN SCALE ENERGY STORAGE. HE CHAIRED PANELS FOR THE NATIONAL ACADEMIA ENERGY STORAGE ACROSS SCALES HERE IN HE IS AN ACCOMPLISHED AUTHOR WITH OVER 30 PLUS PEER-REVIEWED PUBLICATIONS AND ARTICLES. A PHD AND APPLIED MATERIALS PHYSICS FROM THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY IN 2006. DR. HILL. [APPLAUSE] 

DR. HILL: THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME HERE AND SPEAK WITH YOU, I HOPE WE CAN ADDRESS A NUMBER OF SAFETY ISSUES BROUGHT UP IN THE EARLY DISCUSSIONS PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF THE TALKS. IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONGRATULATE JOHN ON THE GREAT INTRODUCTION ON THE BATTERIES 101, THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT DEMONSTRATES WE ARE AT A STATE OF TECHNOLOGY TODAY WHERE YOU CAN GO BY BATTERIES OFF THE SHELF AND I THINK YOU MAY BE SURPRISED THAT THE COSTS ARE LOWER THAN YOU THINK. WE STARTED WORKING IN BATTERIES IN RULES FOR HYPERPOWER ALMOST ONE DECADE AGO AND WHEN WE WERE DOING THAT, EVEN AS FAR BACK AS 2006 WE WERE LOOKING FOR $2000 PER KILOWATT HOUR AND BY THE TIME WE GOT INTO REALLY DOING PROJECTIONS ON COSTS IN 2008, 12 HUNDRED-$1500 PER KILOWATT HOUR AT THE CELL LEVEL AND WE GIVE PROJECTIONS TAKING THAT IF WE GOT UNDER $400 TILL OUR WE WOULD BE ADDING SIGNIFICANT POINT IN THE INDUSTRY BUT IF YOU PAID A TICKET TO THE PRESS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU BELIEVE IT, YOU HEAR CLOSE FROM TESLA SAYING -- UP LIKE A GEO AT $145 -- WHAT DOES IT MEAN IN TERMS OF COST, WE HAVEN'T INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS IN MANUFACTURING AND MOST OF THE MAJOR LITHIUM-ION CHEMISTRIES WHICH HAVE COMPOUNDED YEAR OVER YEAR AS A RATE OF 8% TO 15% WHICH IS MANUFACTURING AT SCALE. THAT PUTS US IN THE YEARS EASILY WITHIN THE GRASP OF 250 WATT HOURS PER KILOGRAM AND LESS THAN $200 PER KILOWATT HOUR WITH NO MAJOR PENDING ADVANCEMENTS FOR ANY INTERNATIONAL LABS OR PATENT IP THAT COMES OUT OF BATTERY COMPANIES COME IT COMES DOWN THE PIPELINE BUT YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED OF WHAT THE COSTS ACTUALLY ARE AND WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES TODAY, IT IS FURTHER AHEAD THAN YOU THINK. I WOULD HOPE THAT EVERYBODY CAN WALK AWAY FROM THIS MEETING IS THAT EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO BUILD A SYSTEM IS IN THIS ROOM, PLENTY PEOPLE WITH EXPERIENCE AND WHO UNDERSTAND HOW TO INTEGRATE THESE SYSTEMS, NOT FAR AWAY, IT WILL NOT TAKE THREE OR FIVE YEARS TO DEVELOP, YOU CAN DO IT RIGHT NOW WITH PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM. I HOPE WE CAN ADDRESS MOST OF THAT. I WILL GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF RESEARCH, THE JOINT INDUSTRY PROGRAM WE EXECUTED 32015 AND 2016 AND THE SECOND PROJECT IS WORK WE DID ON BATTERY FIRE SAFETY, THE BULK OF THE DATA THAT WILL BE CONTAINED IN TODAY'S PRESENTATION. THEY WORK WE DID WITH THE INDUSTRY PROGRAM, WE WORKED WITH COMPANIES , THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FOLLOW, -- SAMSUNG, HEAVY INDUSTRY, THIS IS A DEMONSTRATION OF THE ENTIRE VALUE CHAIN AND THE MARINE SECTOR. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO BUILD. THIS IS WHY WE ASSEMBLED THIS GROUP AND WHY THE PROGRAM WAS VERY VALUABLE BECAUSE WE GOT ALL OF THEM IN A ROOM AND EVERYBODY GOT TO TALK TO EACH OTHER IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER ABOUT WHAT SEGMENT OF THAT SUPPLY CHAIN CAN AND CANNOT DO AND WHAT EACH SEGMENT OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HERE TO SET THAT UP AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD, THIS IS WHERE THE COST COME FROM, THIS IS WHY VACCINE DIFFERENT VARIATIONS IN COST. THIS IS WHY I UNDERSTAND WHY MY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION PROBLEMS ARE A CHALLENGE OF I DO NOT CONVEY THIS INFORMATION TO MY SUPPLIER AND THAT WAS INSTRUMENTAL EDUCATIONAL PIECE OF THIS PROGRAM. WE LOOKED AT FOUR DIFFERENT VESSELS IN THIS PROGRAM, TUGS, OFFSHORE SUPPLY VESSELS, AND EIGHT SHIP AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHERE DOES HYDROPOWER FIT IN THESE APPLICATIONS. WE HAVE HISTORY IN THIS AREA, WE PUBLISH THE GUIDELINE FOR LARGE MARITIME BATTERY SYSTEMS A FEW YEARS BACK, THE FUTURE OF HYBRID COME A DOCUMENT ON OUR WEBSITE IT CONTAINS DETAILS ABOUT HOW DO YOU MAKE A VESSEL BATTERY READY AND WHAT DO YOU NEED TODAY TO DO THAT. WE HAVE A RECOMMENDED PRACTICE CALLED GRID STORE, YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT, IT EVOLVES BASICALLY EVERYTHING FROM STORAGE PROJECT DEVELOPMENTS FROM THESE DARK TO THE END. -- THE START TO THE END. I WANT TO FRAME THIS DISCUSSION AROUND THE ECONOMIC CASE FOR HYBRID VESSEL AND GET INTO THE SAFETY CASE FROM THEIR. THESE ARE THE RESULTS FROM THE PROGRAM I JUST TALKED ABOUT, FOR A LITTLE BIT OF INVESTMENT TO ADD TO THE BATTERY TO THE VESSEL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FIVE TIMES TO 10 TIMES TAKE THAT OVER 50,000 ENGINE HOURS IN THE VESSEL, PAYBACK IS FAST EDDIE FUEL ECONOMY IMPROVEMENTS ARE FROM 10 PERCENT TO 25%, THAT REDUCES EMISSIONS AND FUEL CONSUMPTION AND BY REDUCING FUEL CONSUMPTION IT RESULTS IN SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS. THIS WAS CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL OF THEM, THE SHUTTLE TAKER WE SAVE MONEY UP FRONT BECAUSE THERE IS EXTRA CAPACITY BUILT INTO A VESSEL THAT LARGE THAT YOU CAN OMIT ONE OF THE JET SET AND REPLACE IT WITH A BATTER AND YOU GET INSTANT PAYBACK. THE SHUTTLE TAKER WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY WERE VERY INTERESTED IN AVOIDING A SCENARIO WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE A BLACKOUT ON THE VESSEL WHEN THEY ARE SITTING NEXT TO AN OFFSHORE PLATFORM. IN THAT CASE, THE VESSEL WOULD DRIFT AND PARTICULAR COLLIDE WITH A PLATFORM, HAVING BACKUP POWER THROUGH ELECTRIC POWER WHICH IS ALSO SERVING AS HYBRID POWER, IT WOULD GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO RIDE THROUGH THE BLACKOUT FOR 10 MINUTES AND THAT IS WITHOUT SIZING THE SYSTEM TO BACKUP, CITING THE SYSTEM TO THE HYBRID. IT HAS A COUPLE OF BENEFITS, THAT SAFETY AVOIDANCE HAS NORMAL -- ENORMOUS COST BENEFIT. THE DRILL SHIP IS AN INTERESTING APPLICATION. THE BIGGER THE VESSEL, THE BIGGER THE PAYBACK AND THE BIGGER THE PAYBACK MULTIPLE. YOU CAN LOOK AT THE SAVINGS IN TERMS OF CO2, ANY SORT OF GREEN ASKED GAS EQUIVALENT, TALKING ABOUT ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE IS AN OMISSIONS PENALTY OR COST, YOU CAN SITE A DOLLARS PER KILOGRAM OR DOLLARS PER GRAM OR PER TON NUMBER DUTIES AND SEE WHAT THAT PLACE INTO THE EVALUATION OF ECONOMICS. THE NUMBERS I SHOWED YOU ON THE PREVIOUS LIFE DO NOT INCLUDE QUALITIES, JUST FUEL SAVINGS. THE MAIN POINT WITH THAT IS THAT IT MAKES A NICE BUSINESS CASE. TO START FROM THAT, WITHOUT REGULATIONS AND WITHOUT ANY OTHER KIND OF POLICY IMPLEMENTATION, LOOK AT IT FROM AN ECONOMICS, A VIABLE BUSINESS CASE, A MATTER OF GETTING THE COST DOWN AND INTEGRATING IN AN INTELLIGENT WAY TO MAKE A VESSEL. SOME OF THE FINDINGS FROM THAT, WE FINISHED UP TRYING TO SIZE THE BATTERY TO DIFFERENT DUTY CYCLES AND THERE ARE A LOT OF OPTIONS, YOU HAVE IN CM AND PHOSPHATE CHEMISTRIES, THEY ARE AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET TODAY. IF YOU HAD WATERCOOLER DONE TO THESE, YOU CAN REDUCE THE POWER DENSITY. THESE ARE PRODUCTS OFF THE MARKET TODAY THAT YOU CAN JUST BUY. YOU CAN TALK TO CORBIS, PLAN B, EXALT, INTERDENTAL, THEY WILL SERVE THIS FUNCTION. THE C RATE IN THIS CASES, SOME AT 3RMS, SOME AT 6, HOW MANY DISCHARGES PER HOUR YOU CAN THEORETICALLY ARRIVE WITH THE BATTERY, HIGH POWER DENSITY IN A BATTER THAT HAS BEEN WATERCOOLED. GOOD ENERGY. THE IRON PHOSPHATES LOWER ENERGY. THERE IS A LOT OF VARIATION IN THE MARKET TODAY, A LOT OF DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES. THIS IS A BOWTIE MODEL, HARD TO SEE BUT WHAT THIS IS IS IT DEMONSTRATES THE THREAT ON THE SIDE AND THE CONSEQUENCES ON THE SITE, A WAY OF VISUALIZING RISK. ONE OF THE BENEFITS, I MENTIONED THIS FOR THE SHUTTLE TAKER CASE, IF YOU PUT AS MANY BARRIERS AS YOU GET IN FRONT OF A THREAT, THAT DECREASES THE PROBABILITY OF THE THREAT BEING AT RISK. RISK IS POSSIBILITY TIMES CONSEQUENCE. HYBRID POWER COME HAVING A BATTERY ABOARD A VESSEL INSERT ANOTHER BARRIER IN THAT PATH OF LOSS OF POSITION WHICH INCREASES THE SAFETY OF THAT CASE. THIS IS AN OPERATIONAL SAFETY ARGUMENT FOR HYBRID POWER WHICH GIVES YOU ANOTHER BARRIER TO PREVENT BLACKOUT CONDITIONS OR ANOTHER BARRIER TO PREVENT CONDITIONS WHERE THE SHIP IS DEAD IN THE WATER. USING THAT SAME METHODOLOGY, WE UNCOVERED ANOTHER RISK OF THIS REQUIRES A REVISION AND SOME OF THE RULES. VENTILATION IN THE CASE OF FIRE. PRESENTLY, THE CURRENT PRACTICE FOR A FIRE ON BOARD A VESSEL IS TO SHUT UP AND LAOIS AND, YOU DECREASE AUCTION COMING TO THE FIRE. IN THE CASE OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES, YOU WILL HAVE A SMOLDERING EVENT WHERE YOU HAVE TOXIC AND FLAMMABLE CHEMICALS AND YOU DO NOT WANT THOSE TO CONCENTRATE IN AN ENCLOSED SPACE AND YOU NEED TO VENTILATE, THE DIRECT CONFLICT IN THE RULES THEY ARE SAYING DO NOT VENTILATE BUT YOU DO. THAT IS TO BE RESOLVED THROUGH INTELLIGENT MONITORING. -- THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED THROUGH INTELLIGENT MONITORING. REAL RESULTS ON SAFETY, AS I MENTIONED, WE DID THIS WORK FOR CONSOLIDATED EDISON, WHY WERE THEY INVESTING BATTERY SAFETY RESEARCH THIS YEAR? THE STATE OF NEW YORK HAS A VERY STRONG, AGGRESSIVE GOAL FOR BOTH PORTFOLIO STANDARD AND ENERGY STORE GAS ENERGY STORAGE, IT IS A GOOD FORMING ASSET. THE BIGGEST AREA WHERE THEY HAVE CONGESTION RESTRAINT FOR POWER DELIVERY IS IN MANHATTAN AND THE WAY THAT THEY NEED TO ADDRESS THAT IS BY INSTALLING BATTERIES BEHIND THE METER. THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE MANHATTAN IS SO DENSE THAT BUILDING OUT NEW DISTRIBUTION INFRASTRUCTURE IS ENTIRELY OFF PROHIBITED AND MAY HAVE A PEEK DEMAND IN THAT AREA, THAT CAN SPAN AS LONG AS 10 HOURS AND THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN ADDRESS THE KEY DEMAND WITHOUT INSTALLING NEW SUBSTATION WHICH IS HIGH-COST IS BATTERIES. THEY CANNOT INSTALL BATTERIES IN MANHATTAN BECAUSE FDNY SAID I WILL NOT LET YOU PUT ANYTHING IN A BUILDING WHERE MY GUYS HAVE TO FIGHT THE FIRE UNTIL I GET WHAT IT MEANS FOR RISK, GOOD POINT, THEY GO INTO BURNING BUILDINGS AND FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE THE FIRES ARE A CERTAINTY. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE BATTERY IS MORE FULLY STABLE THAN ANY OTHER BATTERY OR WHETHER OR NOT THE BATTERY WILL HAVE INTERNAL DEFECTS WHICH CAUSES A FIRE, NOT ABOUT THAT, IT IS A FACT THAT BUILDINGS BURNED AND IF A BATTER IS IN THERE, A FIREFIGHTER HAS TO DEAL WITH THAT. THEY HAD VALID CONCERNS ABOUT -- DO I HAVE APPROPRIATE EQUIPMENT TO EXTINGUISH A FIRE, DO I WEAR THE APPROPRIATE YEAR, TRADE MY GUYS ON THE USE OF A NEW EXTINGUISHER? THEY SAID THEY WILL FUND THIS AND WE WILL PUT RESEARCH INTO BATTERY SAFETY AND GIVE FDNY EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR WHICH IS WHY WE CONDUCTED THAT PROGRAM. I THINK ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS -- I WILL SHOW SOME KEY DATA, YOU WILL SEE THINGS LIKE HF, AND BEFORE WE GET INTO DETAILS I WANT TO MAKE ONE POINT -- ALL OF THE THINGS WE FOUND ARE MANAGEABLE WITHIN TODAY'S ENGINEERING CONTROLS. THAT IS THE MAIN TAKE AWAY. THIS IS MANAGEABLE PROVIDED THAT YOU USE SAFETY FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES AND I WILL HAVE THAT AT THE FINISH OF THESE SLIDES. DO NOT GET SCARED OF THINGS LIKE HF, IT COMES OTHER PLASTICS FIRES ALSO AND THAT IS SOME OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED OUT OF THIS PROGRAM. THIS CHART SHOWS ON THE BOTTOM THE 3-D TERM ON THE VERTICAL ACCESS IS THE AIR CHANGES PER HOUR REQUIRED TO VENTILATE. ON THIS ACTION, IT IS GOING TOWARDS THE RIGHT OF THE ROOM IN YOUR CASE, THE BATTERY MAST IS BURNING SO YOU CAN ALSO TRANSLATE THAT TO THE NUMBER OF SALES THAT HAVE FAILED. THE VOLUME OF THE ROOM IS ON THE ACCESS GOING INTO THE SCREEN. THE BIGGER THE ROOM, IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE BATTERY, THAT DILUTES THE TOXICITY WHICH MEANS YOUR AIR CHANGE RATE NEEDS TO BE LESS. IF YOU HAVE A SMALLER ROOM AND A SINGLE BATTERY FIRE, IT IS MORE CONCENTRATED SO INCREASED INTERCHANGE RATE AND THIS IS WHITE THIS IS A SURFACE PLOT. THE OVERALL FINDING, FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN A COUPLE OF SALES FILLING THE AIR CHANGE RATE IS CONSISTENT ABOUT .25 AND IN THIS ROOM RIGHT NOW IT IS ABOUT 3 TO 4 ACH. IN THE WORST-CASE SCENARIO, ON THIS GRAPH, IF WE GO UP TO 66 KILOGRAMS, BASED ON THE BAT OF GREEK -- BATTERY CHEMISTRY WE TESTED, LOOKING AT A MODULE AND A HALF. WE ARE ASSUMING THAT WORST-CASE SCENARIO THE FIRE -- AN ENTIRE MODULE HAS FAILED, ALL THE CELLS HAVE GONE INTO THEIR PEAKING OF SOME RUN AWAY AT THAT POINT THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF ANOTHER BATTERY FAILING AT THE SAME TIME. ACH WOULD GET UP TO ABOUT 12, A TYPICAL LABORATORY ENVIRONMENT IS 10-12 ACH. STILL WITHIN LIMITS OF THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT, KEY FINDING BECAUSE FDNY WAS CONCERNED AND THEY THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE TO INSTALL VARIABLE FEED STATS WITH HIGH RATINGS AND THAT IS NOT THE CASE. COMPLETELY MANAGEABLE WITHIN WHAT IS IN THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT TODAY. IT TURNED OUT THAT WE CAME IN TO THE TESTING THINKING THAT THE DRIVER FOR VENTILATION WOULD BE FLAMMABILITY. WE THOUGHT IT MAY BE CO OR MAYBE H2 OR CARBONATES FROM THE SOLVENTS IN THE BATTERY THAT WOULD DRIVE THIS. IT IS ACTUALLY HCL. WHY? THERE LI -- THE LIMIT FOR CO IS 12,000 PPM. AS LONG AS YOU GOVERN THE VENTILATION TO THE TOXICITY REQUIREMENT, YOU WILL MORE THAN TAKE CARE OF THE FLAMMABILITY REQUIREMENTS. ALL OF THESE CHEMICALS ENDED UP BEING THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE TOXICITY BECAUSE WE SAW THEM CONSISTENTLY ACROSS EVERY CHEMISTRY, INCLUDING LEAD. WE ALSO SAW THIS IN PLASTICS FIRES, WE TOOK SOME PLASTICS , TEFLON AND A FEW OTHERS AND WE TESTED THEM UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS WE DID WITH THE BATTERIES. THERE IS A DISTINCT FIGHTING FROM THAT -- IF I TAKE A KILOGRAM OF TEFLON AND I TAKE A ONE KILOGRAM LITHIUM-ION BATTERY AND LET THEM BOTH BURN AND ANALYZE THE GASES COMING OFF, THE SMOLDERING I GET FROM THE LITHIUM-ION BATTERY IS AT A LEVEL FAR LOWER THAN THE AVERAGE EMISSION RATE OF THE PLASTIC. WHEN IT GOES INTO THERMAL RUNWAY, THE GIVEN IS TWO MINUTES TO THREE MINUTES AT HIGHER AND WHAT I WAS YETI TIME WOULD AVERAGE OF THE EMISSIONS FROM THE PLASTIC. IF YOU INTEGRATE UNDER THAT EMISSIONS CURVE AND YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL MASS OF TOXICS EMITTED FROM THAT, THE PLASTICS IS MORE, HAS MORE TOXICITY THAN THE BATTERY. THE INGREDIENTS ARE SOMEWHAT SIMILAR, POLYMERS IN THE BATTERY AND A LOT MORE POLYMERS IN THE ONE KILOGRAM OF PLASTICS. ON A MASS BASIS, NOTHING EXOTIC IN SIDE THE BATTERY THAT WILL CONTRIBUTE TO ANY MORE TOXICITY THAN THE PLASTICS. THEREFORE, THIS IS A TOXICITY ISSUE THAT WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO DEALING WITH BECAUSE THERE ARE PLASTICS EVERYWHERE. THIS IS ONE OF THE FINDINGS WE GET TO FDNY, IF YOU IMPOSE STRICTER VENTILATION'S ON A BATTERY, KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH OFFICE ENVIRONMENTS THAT ARE DEALING WITH PLENTY OF POLYMERS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND WE ARE NOT PUTTING ANY EXTRA VENTILATION REQUIREMENTS ON THOSE. CONSIDER THAT, THAT THE TOXICITY OF PLASTICS IS WORSE THAN THE TOXICITY OF A BATTERY, NOTHING NEW HERE. WE HAD A GROUP THAT WE WORKED WITH IN DOING THE FIRE EXTINGUISHING, THIS IS A PHOTO FROM A FIRE TEST, THE GROUP IS CALLED RESCUE METHODS, CAREER FIREFIGHTERS WHO DO TRAINING WITH A LOT OF OTHER FAR DEPARTMENTS. -- FIRE DEPARTMENTS, THEY THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE WAY WORSE THAN IT WAS AND AFTER THE FIRST COUPLE OF BATTERY TEST, THEY SAID WE CAN HANDLE THIS WITH THIS KIND OF EQUIPMENT WE USE EVERYDAY. I AM NOT SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF, THOSE ARE THEIR WORDS. ANOTHER KEY FINDING -- WE TESTED AN AEROSOL EXTINGUISH AN AGENT IN THIS CASE. WE WERE LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN THE CELLS IN THE MIDDLE OF A FAILURE. THE PURPOSE OF THIS TEST WAS TWOFOLD, NUMBER ONE, LET'S SEE HOW WELL AN ERROR SO OR GAS FACE AGENT COOLS. SECONDLY, LET'S UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF CASCADING PROTECTION BETWEEN CELLS. WE PUT A COUPLE OF CELLS TOGETHER AND THE WAY WE TESTED THEM IS ASSUMING THAT THERE IS AN EXTERNAL KEY ENVIRONMENT FROM A FIRE -- HEAT ENVIRONMENT FROM A FIRE, HEATING THEM UP TO THE ON 120 DEGREES CELSIUS WHICH IS A PRETTY COMMON THRESHOLD ACROSS ALL LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES WHEN THEY IGNITE. WE LET THEM GO AND SOME WERE RUNAWAY AND WE HAVE CENTURIES IN SALT AND ARE TESTING OR SO THAT AS SOON AS WE SAW THE TEMPERATURE SPIKE, WE INITIATED THE THING WISHING. WE INITIATED THE EXTINGUISHING AND THIS PUT OUT THE FIRE, THE AEROSOL AGENT DID. BUT COME ON EACH OF THE BATTERY CELLS, THE TEMPERATURE STARTED TO DROP FROM ITS THE ABOUT 375 DEGREES CELSIUS BUT BETWEEN THE CELLS THAT REMAINED AT 700 DEGREES CELSIUS OR HIGHER, FOR ABOUT SEVEN MINUTES. THAT IS JUST TWO CELLS. NOT EVEN PACKED INSIDE A MODULE. THIS MEANS REMOVING HEAT FROM BETWEEN THE CELLS IS CRITICAL AND A GAS-BASED AGENT IS NOT DOING THAT. THAT IS A KEY FINDING. A LOT OF SYSTEMS HELD AN INTEGRATED AND SOLD ON THE MARKET TODAY, QUICK WITH SIX SUPPRESSION, WHETHER A NOVAK OR INFM200, THAT IS LEGACY OF UP S'GOOD AT PUTTING OUT AN INCIPIENT FIRE BUT NOT A GOOD COOLING AGENT AND THIS IS THE CHART THAT SHOWS THAT. FOR THE MARINE SYSTEM, IF IT PASSES THE PROPAGATION TEST, THAT IS WHAT WE REQUIRE IN OUR APPROVAL BECAUSE IT DEMONSTRATES WHETHER THIS HAS CASCADING PROTECTIONS. THAT IS DEMONSTRATED BEST, SHOWING THAT IT WILL NOT ALLOW THIS HE COULD BE BUILT UP IN THE INTERIOR AND TRANSLATE A PROPAGATE TO THE NEARBY CELLS. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY FIGURE THIS OUT A LONG TIME AGO, IT IS TIME THAT THE -- ELIMINATING THE HEAT FROM TRANSFERRING BETWEEN CELLS IS CRITICAL AND IT SHOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT IS GLOSSED OVER IN THE DESIGN. WHAT IS THE BEST EXTENT WHICH ARE BEST EXTENT WHICH ARE -- EXTINGUISHER? WATER. WE GOT WE WOULD FIND SOME BIG FANCY. THERE IS NO PERFECT, WHEN YOU USE WATER YOU WILL SHORT OUT OTHER CELLS AND INTRODUCING COLLATERAL DAMAGE IF YOU ARE ONLY HAVING DAMAGE AT ONE CELL, SO NO PERFECT EXTINGUISHER BUT WATER IS GOOD BECAUSE IT GOES WELL, TALKING TO ANYBODY ABOUT EXTINGUISHING, UNLESS THEY CAN SHOW YOU THAT THE THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY AND DENSITY IS BETTER THAN WATER, I WOULD NOT CONSIDER ANYTHING ELSE AT THAT POINT. WE RECOMMEND A TWO-STAGE APPROACH, TAKES A PERSON WITH A GUESS BASED AGENT TO PUT OUT INCIPIENT FIRE WITH CONTINUED MUTTERING TO MAKE SURE THE HEAT IS NOT RISING. IF THAT IS THE CASE, IF YOU HAVE PROPAGATION PROTECTION, THE FIRE SHOULD BE MANAGED AT THAT POINT AND THE ENVIRONMENT MAY BE STAGNANT IN ORDER TO LET THE STATE SUPPRESSION AGENT DO ITS JOB AT OPPRESSING THE FLAMMABILITY. IF ANY OF THOSE CONDITIONS START TO CHANGE, VOLTAGE CHANGING, TEMPERATURE CHANGING, STARTING TO SENSE THAT THERE IS MORE GAS BUILDING UP ANY ENVIRONMENT, VENTILATION NEEDS TO TURN ON THEN DO THE WATER SUPPRESSION AND COOL THE WHOLE SYSTEM DOWN AND AT THAT POINT THE SYSTEM IS A LOSS. SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT WITH THE USE OF WATER, WATER WILL MAKE THE WHOLE SYSTEM A LOSS, COLLATERAL DAMAGE. THAT IS WHY WE OFFER THE IDEA OF THIS KIND OF STAGED FIRE EXTINCTION BECAUSE IT GIVES THE OPPORTUNITY TO SALVAGE SOME OF THE REMAINING EQUIPMENT IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. SOMETHING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS. WE TESTED AND ENCAPSULATOR AND JOE AND A PHONE, ALL THIS ARE ADDED TO WATER IN PART OF -- AS PART OF THE STREAM, YOU ARE JUST CHANGING THE SPECIFIC HEAT OF THE WATER BY ADDING THAT. AND ALL OF OUR FINDINGS, IT WAS CONSISTENT THAT WATER COOLED OFF QUICKEST AND STAY COOL. SOME OF THE PHONES ARE DESIGNED TO BLANKET -- FOAMS ARE DESIGNED TO TRAP THE HEAT BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT WITH A LITHIUM-ION BATTERY, YOU WANT TO COOL IT DOWN. IT IS A SYSTEMS LEVEL APPROACH TO SAFETY. THE BIGGEST FEAR RIGHT NOW WITH LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES IS THIS PERCEPTION OF THERMAL RUNAWAY AND WHAT THAT MEANS TECHNICALLY IS THAT IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT CATCHING THAT DURING THE PEAK, YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS REALLY BIG PROBLEM OF TRYING TO SIZE YOUR EXTINGUISHING TO CAPTURE THIS ENTIRE -- THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM AND COST PROHIBITIVE. INSTEAD, USE A BUS OF COST-EFFECTIVE SOLUTIONS IN TANDEM. GIVE THE SYSTEM AND EXTRA FIRE RATING, SIZE THE WATER EXTINGUISHING SYSTEM TO THE THERMAL DUST THERMAL MASS. MAKE SURE THERE ARE CASCADING PROTECTIONS BETWEEN CELLS SO THE FIRE DOES NOT PROPAGATE, THEY IN TANDEM IS A CHEAPER AND MORE EFFECTIVE SOLUTION THAN TRYING TO SIZE THE WHOLE THING TO CAP -- CAPTURE THE THERMAL RUNAWAY EVENT. IF YOU ARE TRYING TO CAPTURE THE THERMAL RUNAWAY EVENT, YOU ARE TRYING TO TIME IT WHICH IS AN ENGINEERING CHALLENGE IN ITSELF. IN ADDITION, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A DEEP-SEATED FIRE THAT YOU CANNOT GET ACCESS TO. UNLESS YOU CAN POSITION THE FIRE EXTINGUISHER NOZZLE ON EVERY SINGLE CELL WHICH WILL NOT HAPPEN FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, THERE IS NO POINT IN TRYING TO SIZE THE SYSTEMS. INSTEAD, IT SHOULD BE DESIGNED THAT COOLING, PROTEIN IRE AND HE FROM PROPAGATING FROM THE SYSTEM IN THE FIRST VOICE AND TACKLING IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE. NO-FAULT BUT WE CAN HELP. WE CAN GO BACK TO THIS BECAUSE THE NHTSA SAID COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER AND I'VE HEARD THAT EXACT PHRASE IN MEETINGS BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A CATCHY PHRASE, COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF WATER WHICH MEANS KEEP USING WATER UNTIL IT IS DONE. THE REASON THEY USE THE PHRASE IT IS BECAUSE IT IS SHORT AND SWEET AND ESSENTIAL TO WHAT THEY FOUND AND WHAT WE FOUND IN THIS PROGRAM, WATER COOLS. MAYBE CHANGE, IF YOU HAVE HEARD THAT, CHANGE THAT IN YOUR MIGHT AND WALK AWAY FROM THIS MEETING TAKING IT NEEDS TO COOL DOWN AND WATER IS GOOD AT THAT. THAT IS THE MAIN POINT. TO REITERATE THE NEED FOR CASCADING PROTECTIONS, ANY KIND OF MATERIAL BETWEEN THE CELLS WHETHER ALUMINA PLATES WITH WATER COOLING OR OTHER PASSING MATERIAL, ANYTHING TO DEMONSTRATE THAT HEAT CANNOT PROPAGATE FROM CELL TO CELL IS IMPORTANT, NECESSARY, PARTICULARLY IN A MARINE BARRETTE OR WHERE ANY PROPAGATION EVEN IS UNACCEPTABLE ON A VESSEL. THAT SHOULD BE THE STANDARD GOING FORWARD. A KEY POINT FROM THAT IS THE BOEING 787 DID NOT HAVE THAT, AND INTERNAL SELF EFFECT THAT CAUSE THAT AND THERE WAS PROPAGATION BETWEEN THE CELLS AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE CASCADING PROTECTIONS AND YOU SAW THAT IN THE TEST WE DID AS WELL. VENTILATION IS A REQUIREMENT. FDNY HAS SPECIFIC QUESTIONS TO US ABOUT WHETHER EXPLOSIONS TO SELL, WHETHER THEY JUST EXPLODE AND WE DID NOT SEE THAT, WE SAW THAT SELLS, IF THEY ARE NOT VENTING OR THEY ARE DELAYED IN THEIR VENTS OPENING DURING THE THERMAL RUNAWAY EVENT, THEY DOES THE GASES COULD BUILD UP AND WE COULD GET TO A STAGE OF EXPLOSIVE ENERGY AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS WE WOULD GET A FLASHOVER, A BIG BOOM IN OUR CHAMBERS AND WE HAD NEIGHBORS UPSTAIRS OUT OF TESTING LAB IN ROCHESTER WHO WOULD COME DOWN AND SAY WHAT IS GOING ON? WE WERE MAKING BIG BOOMS. WE FOUND THAT THE TEMPERATURE CERTAINLY GOVERNS THE TOXICITY AND A LOT OF THE FLAMMABLE COMPONENTS PASS 450 DEGREES CELSIUS. THE COMBINED LEL IS LOWER THAN WHAT THE CONSTITUENT GASES ARE ALTOGETHER. THE MAIN TAKE AWAY THAT IS -- IF YOU'RE VENTILATING, YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF THE FLAMMABILITY COMPONENT. THIS REITERATES WHAT WE SHOWED BEFORE, THE AEROSOL COOLING CAPABILITY VERSUS ALL OF THE OTHER EXTINGUISHER TYPES AND THESE OTHER TYPES ARE ADDITIVES TO WATER. IT DRIVES HOME THAT THE AEROSOL-BASED OR GAS-BASED EXTINGUISHER DOES NOT HAVE THE THERMAL MASS TO DO THE COOLING, IT KNOCKS OUT THE FAR, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF KNOCKED OUT THE FIRE. A STING WISHING THE FIRE IS NOT THE IS YOU -- EXTINGUISHING THE FIRE IS NOT THE ISSUE. DEEP-SEATED FIRES IS A KEY ISSUE, RESCUE METHODS YOU SEE HERE WERE EXTINGUISHING A BATTERY MODULE AFTER THE FIRE AND THIS IS WHAT THEY HAD TO DO, RIGHT UP ON THE BATTERY AND TRY TO FORCE THE WATER BETWEEN THE CELLS IN ORDER TO COOL IT DOWN. WE HAD ONE MODULE ON THE TEST THAT DID NOT HAVE CASCADING PROTECTIONS AND THIS BATTERY WAS SO-CALLED REIGNITING AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE TEST. I WANT TO MAKE THE POINT THAT READMISSION IS A MISNOMER AND I WILL GET TO A SLIDE HERE IN A SECOND ON THAT. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE COME TO U.S. AT MY BATTERY IS A SAFER BATTERY? FOUR XYZ REASONS. ALL OF THESE BATTERIES WILL CATCH ON FIRE, YOU PUT A FLAME TO IT AND THEY WILL BURN BECAUSE THEY HAVE PLASTIC SEND THEM. MOST HAVE SOLVENTS. IT IS ALL FIRE FUEL. THAT MAKES MANUFACTURERS UPSET WHEN WE SAID THAT BUT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS IT DIRECTLY. THAT BEING SAID, IRON PHOSPHATE CONSISTENTLY HAS LOWER FLAME TEMPERATURE DURING TESTING AND THAT IS WHAT THESE BLUE LINES ARE. THIS WHOLE CATEGORY IS IRON PHOSPHATE, THE FLAME TEMPERATURES ARE CERTAINLY LOWER, THEY HAVE LESS VOLATILITY DURING TESTING COMPARED TO SOME OF THE MCMS WE TESTED BUT THEY ARE ALL FLAMMABLE. YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS FIRE AS A CERTAINTY AND UNDERSTAND THAT YOU NEED TO PROTECT AGAINST THAT REGARDLESS BEST REGARDLESS THE BATTERY CHEMISTRY AND SAFETY SHOULD BE A SYSTEMS INTEGRATION ISSUE, AND THE TIRE SYSTEMS APPROACH, JUST BECAUSE IT THE BATTERY CHEMISTRY MAY BE SAFER THAN OTHERS MEANS THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS THEREFORE SAFE. ANOTHER FINDING WAS THAT AFTER SUPPRESSING THE FIRE, THEY CONTINUED TO SMOLDER AND SOMETIMES THE TOXICITY WAS WORSE IN THAT CASE AND A CLUSTER OF DATA POINTS SHOW WE HAD ANYTHING FROM  HLC TO NO2 AFTER EXTINGUISHING WHICH CONTINUE TO SMOLDER WITH MEANS IF YOU GO INTO THE ROOM AFTER THE FIRE IS OUT, IT DOES NOT MEAN EVERYTHING IS ALL GOOD. STRAIN OF VOLTAGE, WE SUBMERGED SOME BATTERIES AFTER TESTING FOR UP TO 24 HOURS AND TOOK THEM OUT THE NEXT MORNING AND THEY STILL HAVE VOLTAGE. I SERVED THAT WATER WILL SHORT OUT CELLS, THAT IS TRUE, BUT NOT ALL. ICE -- IN THE SALVAGE STANDPOINT, BACK INTO AN EVENT AFTER A FIRE, BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE SPARKS AS YOU TRY TO BREAK AWAY SOME OF THIS BURNT AND MELTED EQUIPMENT AND BE AWARE OF THAT. THAT BEING SAID, THE FIRST RESPONDERS, THEIR EQUIPMENT AND TURNOUT WAS MORE THAN ADEQUATE TO PROVIDE THE INSULATION THEY NEEDED TO DO THAT. THEY WERE USING STANDARD EQUIPMENT AND NOBODY GOT SHOCKED. THAT IS AN IMPORTANT TAKE AWAY. I MENTIONED READMISSION EARLIER, YOU SEE THE CHART ON THE RIGHT, THIS IS WHAT READMISSION -- RE-IG NITION. IT CAME BACK. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? THE MAIN TAKE AWAY -- IT IS NOT THAT THE BATTERY MYSTERIOUSLY THE SITES TO CATCH BACK ON FIRE. IF YOU HAVE NOT REMOVED ANY OR ALL OF THE ELECTRICAL, MECHANICAL, AND THERMAL ABUSES AND THEY REMAIN, WHICH MEANS THEY CAN INTRODUCE A SECONDARY EVENT. NOT A REIGNITION OR RE-STARTING OF THE INITIAL EVENT, IT IS A SEPARATE EVENT. THE MAIN TAKE AWAY FROM THE TEST WHICH A LOT OF YOU HAVE HEARD ABOUT, THE CRASH TESTED THE CAR AND PUT IT OUT IN THEIR WRECKING YARD WHILE THEY WENT OFF AND DID OTHER THINGS AND THE BATTERY SAT THERE WITH VOLTAGE STILL ON THE CELLS AND COOL IT STILL ON THE COOLANT. THE COOLANT SHORTED OUT THE BATTERY PACK AND, FIRE VOICE THEY COST READ A MISSION BUT THAT IS SHORTING OUT A BATTERY PACK. THAT IS SOMETHING WE WANTED TO BRING OUT AND STRESS. NOT SOME MYSTERIOUS EVENT THAT CAUSES THIS, IF YOU HAVE NOT REMOVED THE ELECTRICAL, THERMAL, MECHANICAL ABUSES, THEY REMAIN AND ARE STILL A THREAT. MAKE SURE THEY ARE ALL MITIGATED AND YOU CAN CALL THAT SYSTEM SHUTDOWN AND CALL THAT SYSTEM SAFE IF YOU WANT TO. IN THIS CASE, WHAT WAS HAPPENING IS THE HEAT INSIDE THE MODULE WAS STILL THERE. THE THERMAL EVENT WAS NEVER REMOVED WHICH MEANT IT STILL PERSISTED AND IT BROUGHT US BACK TO ANOTHER ABUSE, A SEPARATE THERMAL EVENT WHICH CAUSED CASCADING IN THE CELLS, A DELAY CASCADING EVENT, REALLY. IF THAT MAKES SENSE. THE LAST THING I WANT TO BRING OUT IN TERMS OF TOXICITY, THIS IS WHAT THE OMISSIONS LOOK RIGHT FROM A BATTERY, TALKING ABOUT PLASTICS VERSUS BATTERIES, FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME THAT THE BATTERY IS EMITTING -- LESS THAN 10 PPM. SMOLDERING, SMOLDERING, SMOLDERING, THAT IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE LOTS OF SENSING IN THE SYSTEM AND UNDERSTAND IT IS ABOUT TO HAVE A PROBLEM, PLENTY OF TIME TO PROVIDE EARLY WARNING IN ORDER TO INSTITUTE SUBSTANTIVE SHUTDOWN MECHANISM OR COOLING MECHANISM. YOU HAVE LOTS OF WARNING BEFORE A BATTERY STARTS TO GO INTO -- NOT ENTIRELY SPONTANEOUS. HE GIVEN IS ABOUT TWO MINUTES TO THREE MINUTES, TIME ENOUGH FOR EXTINGUISHING IS AN ENGINEERING CHALLENGE SO DO NOT TRY. INSTEAD, BUILT AROUND THE SYSTEM TO PREVENT HEAT FROM GETTING INTO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE WITH -- PROTECTIONS, HAVE SENSING AND MONITORING AND STATE -- AND DISTINGUISHING WHICH ADDRESSES MOST OF THE SAFETY ISSUES. THESE DESIGN PRINCIPLES ARE THE TAKE AWAY, STRONG FIRE RATING, CASCADING PRODUCTION, VENTILATE AND EXTINGUISH TO HALT THE FIRE AND COOL. THAT IS THE DESIGN PRINCIPLE EVERYONE SHOULD FOLLOW AND THAT IS WHAT WE COULD WEIGH FROM THIS PROGRAM. THERE ARE STILL SOME R&D NEEDS FROM THIS AND I HOPE THAT WE HAVE REALLY DEMYSTIFY THINGS IN TERMS OF SAFETY FOR BATTERS IN THE HISTORY OF WHICH IS WHY WE ARE TELLING YOU EVERYTHING WE FOUND FOR FREE. WE WANT TO MOVE THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY FORWARD AND GET PAST SOME OF THESE ISSUES ABOUT WHAT ABOUT EXTINCTION, WE WANT TO GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY BECAUSE WE FEEL THIS CAN BE MANAGED, TECHNICALLY SOLVABLE PROBLEMS. STUFF YOU CONSULT WITH OFF THE SHOW STUFF TODAY. WHERE ELSE CAN WE GO IN TERMS OF SAFETY? THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS IN INTEGRATING THE VESSEL, HOW DO YOU MAKE ALL THE SYSTEMS INTEGRATED? DO NOT JUST PURCHASE A BUNCH OF STUFF AND PUT THEM IN A BOX AND STATE THEY WORK WELL TOGETHER, MORE TO IT, WHICH REQUIRE SUPPLY-CHAIN INTEGRATION WHICH ARE SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES IN MAKING SYSTEMS MORE SAFE. THAT MEANS THAT ALL THE SUPPLIES WHEN THEY ARE TALKING TO THE ULTIMATE CUSTOMER, THE OPERATOR OF THE VESSEL OR THE BUILDER OF THE VESSEL, THEY NEED TO BE UNIFIED ON THEIR APPROACH. IF THE BUILDER IS TALKING TO JUST THE BATTERY GUY AND GIVES HIM ONE OPPRESSION ABOUT SAFETY AND TALK TO THE HIGHER SUPPRESSION GUY AND GIVES HIM A DIFFERENT ISSUE ABOUT SAFETY, HE WILL BE CONFUSED AND NOT HAVE CERTAINTY WHICH MEANS HE WILL NOT MOVE FORWARD ON BUILDING VESSEL. THE SUPPLY CHAIN NEEDS TO HAVE A UNIFORM APPROACH AND BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT THE RISKS AND TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO, WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS MARKETING -- MARKETING SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT OF THAT EQUATION. WE RECOMMEND SYSTEM INTEGRATED FIRE EXTINCTION WHICH MEANS ANY SORT OF MECHANISM REGARDING COOLING, VENTILATION, FIRE SUPPRESSION, AND MAYBE EVEN THE MBS. THAT APPROACH WOULD GIVE THE DATA REQUIRED TO HAVE STATE -- EXTINGUISHING AND INCREASED INSULATION AT THE RIGHT TIME AND THE DECISION FOR WAY TO MAKE THE TRANSITION FROM A TEXT SUPPRESSION AGENT TO WATER COOLING. I THINK THAT CONCLUDES IT. 

>> A QUICK QUESTION FROM SOME PEOPLE ONLINE. WHAT THE CON EDISON DECIDE TO DO AS A RESULT OF THE STUDY? 

>> 

>> THE REPORT WE JUST GAVE THEM IS UNDER CIRCULATION AND THE INTENT TO HAVE IT IN THE PUBLIC BEFORE CHRISTMAS. IN A WEEK OR SO. WHAT THE INTENT IS NOW IS FDNY WILL ENGAGE IN THEIR CODE WRITING PROCEDURES. THAT SHOULD HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS, ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE IN A SEPARATE RFP. THEY WILL HAVE TRAINING REQUIREMENTS IN THAT FOR THE FIRST RESPONDERS AND ALSO HAVE VENTILATION AND EXTINGUISHING REQUIREMENT FOR BUILDING AND WE HOPE FROM THE TECHNICAL INFORMATION WE PROVIDED HERE, THAT WILL BE NOT TOO LABORIOUS. 

>> THANK YOU DR. NO. VERY INFORMATIVE -- THANK YOU DR. HILL. VERY INFORMATIVE. [APPLAUSE] 

>> WE ARE SCHEDULED FOR A BREAK. WE WILL TAKE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS AFTER THE BREAK. AFTER THE NEXT PANEL DISCUSSION. THANK YOU AGAIN, THANKS. 

>> PLEASE TAKE YOUR SEAT AND WE WILL START AGAIN. WE WILL COME BACK AFTER THIS PRESENTATION. OUR NEXT PANEL WILL BE COORDINATED BY DR. LENNY. PRIOR TO THAT, WE HAVE SOME COORDINATION BY DR. MITCH MABRY. ONE QUESTION -- ONE REQUEST, ALL THE PRESENTERS WHEN YOU MOVE AWAY FROM THE MICROPHONE , PEOPLE IN REMOTE SPACES CANNOT HEAR YOU PROPERLY. GRAB THE MICROPHONE WHEN YOU ARE MOVING AWAY SO THIS CAN BE RECORDED PROPERLY. THANK YOU. 

>> THERE IS NO DOCTOR. RIGHT NOW, WE ARE MOVING INTO THE TECHNOLOGY PANEL, LOOKING AT DIFFERENT BATTERY TECHNOLOGIES AND POWER CONVERSION TOMORROW. WHAT I WANT TO DO TO HELP THE PRESENTERS IS THAT IF YOU COULD EACH -- I AM ON THE WRONG PAGE -- AMONGST YOUR SALES AND YOUR TABLES I WILL TAKE TWO MINUTES AND I WANT YOU TO WRITE DOWN, EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ONE QUESTION PER TABLE BUT YOU CAN HAVE MULTIPLE, THAT YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THESE TECHNOLOGIES. WE HAVE HAD A FEW ALREADY, SUBMIT ONE PERSON FROM THE TABLE TO WRITE THEM ON THIS PAD FOR THE GROUP SO WE ARE KEYI NG THEM UP AS OUR PRESENTERS MOVE FORWARD. ONE QUESTION YOU WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THE BATTERY TECHNOLOGIES FOR OUR NEXT GROUP OF PRESENTERS. 

>> TIME IS RUNNING LOW, PLEASE COME UP, EACH TABLE, WE HAVE ONE FROM LENNY. SINCE HE IS THE MODERATOR, HE GETS TO ASK THE FIRST QUESTION AND HIS QUESTION IS -- WHAT CAUSES THERMAL RUNAWAY? WHAT IS A FLOW BATTERY? AND WHY IS BATTERY VOLTAGE SO LIMITED? COMING UP, YOU CAN READ THEM WHILE THE NEXT PERSON IS WRITING, SOMEBODY ON THE OTHER PAD. 

>> WE ARE SEEING QUESTIONS ABOUT RECYCLING AND QUESTIONS ABOUT SYSTEM COST. THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT THE COLLISION CAUSED. -- VENTILATION CAUSED -- COST. HOW DO WE PICK THE BEST BATTERY FOR AN APPLICATION? WE WILL GO TO THE NEXT ROUND OF THREE SPEAKERS AND THEN LENNY WILL MODERATE THE PANEL WITH THE SPEAKERS FROM THIS ROUND. I WILL TAKE YOU SOME OF THESE ARE FOR THE POWER GUYS IN THE MORNING. EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO ASK THEIR QUESTIONS? OVER TO YOU, DOCTOR. 

>> HI, EVERYBODY, I WILL TRY TO MAKE THIS MICROPHONE, BUT I JUST -- TALLER BUT I JUST YANKED IT OUT. IT IS MY PLEASURE TO MODERATE THE NEXT SESSION. THE FIRST SPEAKER IS JOHN WARNER, JOHN IS AN EXPERIENCED SALES PRODUCT MANAGEMENT AND STRATEGIC MARKETING EXECUTIVE WITH 25 YEARS THE AUTOMOTIVE AND BATTERY INDUSTRY. HE WILL BE PULLING UP HIS TALK. AS CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER DR. WARNER HAS GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR INTERTEC SALES, MARKETING, PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND SERVES AS A CHAIR FOR THE SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS. BATTERY SIZE STANDARDIZATION COMMITTEE AND COCHAIR FOR THE N AATBAT. BUS BATTERY SAFETY COMMITTEE. IN MAY OF 2015, HE PUBLISHED HIS FIRST BOOK, THE HANDBOOK OF LITHIUM HAND BATTERY PACK DESIGN. THIS BOOK OFFERS A CLEAR AND CONCISE EXPLANATION OF THE HISTORY, CHEMISTRY, APPLICATIONS OF LITHIUM BATTERIES AND HOW THEY ARE DESIGNED FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A MANAGER, SALESPERSON, PRODUCT MANAGER, OR ENTRY-LEVEL ENGINEER NOT ALREADY AN EXPERT IN LITHIUM-ION BATTERY DESIGN. IN HIS PREVIOUS ROLE, HE SERVED AS VICE PRESIDENT SALES AND MARKETING FOR XALT AND HE HAS DONE LIQUID HYDROGEN AND DIRECTOR OF PROJECT MANAGER FOR LARGE-FORMAT BATTERIES AND LITHIUM ION BATTERY BOSTON POWDER AND HE SPENT 12 YEARS AT GENERAL MOTORS. HE RECEIVED HIS DR. OF MANAGEMENT ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX AND HIS MBA -- IT IS MY PLEASURE TO WELCOME JOHN. [APPLAUSE] 

JOHN: I WILL TRY TO KEEP GENTLE TIME AND KEEP FOLKS ON TIME. THANK YOU. YOU PROBABLY DO NOT THINK YOU WOULD BE HEARING FROM ME SO SOON, DID YOU? I WAS REPRESENTING THE TRADE GROUP THAT I WORK WITH THIS MORNING SO I WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY TRENDS GOING ON IN THE INDUSTRY. FIRST, I WILL GIVE YOU A BRIEF INTRODUCTION. IS IT WITH A LITHIUM ION MANUFACTURER IN INDIANAPOLIS. WE HAVE FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD BUT WE ARE MANUFACTURING ENERGY AND OURSELVES. -- P[WE OWER CELLS. WE OFFER CUSTOMIZED AND OFF-THE-SHELF SOLUTIONS. RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE 20 MILLION MILES OF IN-SERVICE APPLICATIONS SINCE 2004. WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS IN THE FIELD AND ON THE GROUND TODAY. I MENTIONED WE ARE A GLOBAL COUNTRY HEADQUARTERED IN INDIANAPOLIS. WE HAVE OFFICES IN POLAND AND ST. PETERSBURG, RUSSIA. WE HAVE A CELL MANUFACTURING FACILITY IN SOUTH KOREA. WE HAVE AN ALMOST IDENTICAL ONE IN INDIANAPOLIS AND A MODULE PACKING BUILDING IN INDIANAPOLIS SO WE HAVE A GLOBAL REACH. WE OFFER THE MOXIE PRISMATIC POUCH CELLS. IT IS A HIGH-ENERGY AND HYPE IGH POWER CELL. OUR FIRST GENERATION USES A HARD CARBON SO IT IS A LITTLE BIT LOW ENERGY AND SOME OTHER TECHNOLOGIES BUT IT HAS EXCELLENT POWER CAPABILITIES AND LOW TEMPERATURE CAPABILITIES. WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN MOST OTHER MANUFACTURERS. WE HAVE OPPOSING INTABS. THAT IS ONE OF THE SAFETY FEATURES DESIGNED AT THE CELL LEVEL. WE TAKE THOSE AND BUILD THEM INTO A BATTERY MODULE. IT IS AN ASSEMBLY OF 24 CELLS. WE USE A SOLUTION SO WE END UP WITH HEAT SYNCS BETWEEN THE CELLS. A ROBUST PHYSICAL PACKAGING TO PROTECT IT DURING SHIPPING AND USE. THE KINDS OF THINGS WE HAVE DONE SO FAR, WE HAVE OVER 20 MILLION MILES, 10 MEGAWATT HOURS OF GRID CONNECTED APPLICATIONS. 1.25 MEGAWATT HOUR SYSTEM IN PORTLAND GENERAL ELECTRIC. WE HAD A NICE PROGRAM AND A MOBILE POWER HYBRID SYSTEM. WE HAVE 10 OF THESE WITH THE U.S. AIR FORCE UNDER A DEMO RIGHT NOW. THIS IS AN 80 KILOWATT HOUR SYSTEM WITH A GENERATOR INSTALLED ON IT, WHICH THE U.S. ARMY IS DEMONSTRATING TODAY. WE HAVE OVER 400 BUSES IN THE U.S. TODAY. HYBRID BUSES HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTERIES. WE --- BUSES POWERED BY OUR BATTERIES. WE HAVE DONE SOME INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS, SOME LAWNMOWERS, SOME OTHER SPECIALTY ITEMS. WE HAVE A LOT OF MARKET EXPERIENCE. THAT IS ALL I WILL TALK ABOUT. WHAT I WANTED TO COVER HERE IS, WHAT ARE THE DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS? WHEN YOU ARE OUT THERE LOOKING FOR BATTERY MANUFACTURERS, WHAT ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS YOU NEED TO ASK? ONE OF THE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR ME SAY A LOT TODAY IS SYSTEMS DESIGN, SYSTEMS SAFETY. SAFETY IS A SYSTEMS SOLUTION. YOU WILL HEAR ME REPEAT SOME OF THE STUFF HE TOLD YOU EARLIER. I SAVED THIS CHART FOR THIS PACKAGE IS HAPPENING. STORING ENERGY EQUALS RISK. THE NATURAL POSITION FOR A BATTERY IS TO BE FULLY DISCHARGED AND ANYTIME WE CHARGE IT UP, IT'S NATURAL POSITION IS TO TRY TO DISCHARGE ITSELF SO IT GENERATES INHERENT DANGERS AND RISKS SO OUR JOB IS TO MITIGATE THOSE RISKS, TO UNDERSTAND THOSE THINGS, AND TO BE ON TO CONTAIN THAT ENERGY, CAPTURE THE ENERGY AND CONTROL IT. WE USE A CARE, MONITOR, AND MANAGED PHILOSOPHY. THIS WAS WHERE I WAS SAYING WE THINK OF IT AND I HAVE USED THIS LINE FOR EIGHT YEARS WITH VARIOUS FORUMS, BUT SAFETY REALLY IS A SYSTEMS LEVEL APPROACH WITH BATTERIES. YOU CANNOT TAKE ONE ASPECT AND SAY IT IS SAFE BECAUSE OF CHEMISTRY A, B, C, OR IT IS AIR COOLED OR LIQUID COOLED. YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TYPES OF MATERIALS. YOUR CELL SUPPLIERS SHOULD HAVE SPECIFICATIONS SO THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE INCOMING MATERIALS, MAKING SURE IT MEETS THEIR ASPECT. CELL MANUFACTURING HAS TO HAVE QUALITY SYSTEMS IN PLACE. THE PACK SIDE OF IT, IN EACH OF THESE IS A STEP UP IN INTEGRATION. THE PACK, WHICH INCLUDES THE THERMAL AND ELECTRICAL MANAGEMENT, THE BMS, THE ELECTRONICS, THE SYSTEM WHICH INTEGRATES THE POWER CONTROLS. WE MAY HAVE PARALLEL STRINGS OF BATTERIES SO YOU MAY BE CONTROLLING DIFFERENT BATTERY PACKS. AND THEN CONNECTING THAT WITH THE VESSEL AND INTEGRATING THOSE WITHIN THE VESSEL. EVERY LEVEL, THERE IS A LEVEL OF SAFETY SYSTEMS THAT NEED TO BE EVALUATED. LOOKING AT MATERIAL SELECTION IT A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, PARTICLE SIZE. AS A CELL MANUFACTURER WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR INCOMING MATERIALS, YOU WANT TO HAVE YOUR MANUFACTURER EVALUATING AND MAKING SURE THEY ARE GETTING CONSISTENT PARTICLE SIZE. YOU WANT TO HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF MATERIALS CAN GUARANTEE EVERY CELL YOU MAKE WILL HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE. THE MORPHOLOGY, THE MOISTURE CONTENT. MOISTURE DOES HORRIBLE THINGS TO THE LITHIUM-ION CONTENT. THE CONSISTENCY IN THOSE INTERACTIONS. THEY ALL RESULT IN SAFETY, LIFE, POWER, RELIABILITY. ANY OF THOSE FACTORS CAN AFFECT THOSE PERFORMANCE CHARACTERISTIC. I WANTED TO SHOW THIS TO YOU. THIS CHART SHOWS ENERGY DENSITY INCREASES OVER THE YEARS. IT IS SPECIFIC TO A COUPLE OF CELLS, THE TREND IS ACCURATE. 1991, WHEN THE FIRST LITHIUM-ION CELLS WERE INTRODUCED, WE WERE UNDER 91 0 WATT HOURS. WE ARE SEEING CELLS TODAY UPWARDS OF 200 HOURS. IT IS GETTING MORE AND MORE COMMON SO WE ARE SEEING THIS TREND CONTINUE TO DRIVE UP. TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE LIMIT? SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 300 AND 400 WATT HOURS PER KILOGRAM IS MY GUESS BASED ON THE CURRENT TECHNOLOGIES. BEYOND THAT, WE WILL SEE A LARGER JUMP AS WE GO FORWARD. INTERTEL IS MOVING ALONG THIS BASE. IF YOU GO BACK IN TIME AND LOOK AT LARGE-FORMAT CELLS, YOU WILL SEE A SIMILAR CURVE BUT IT WILL BE SOMEWHAT STEEPER ON THE BECAUSE OF ALL E-LEARNINGS WE WERE ABLE TO APPLY. WE HAVE SEEN THAT INCREASED FROM 2010 AN 2015 A LOT FASTER THAN WE SAW EARLIER. CELL LEVEL, I TALKED ABOUT THESE. THE MMC, LFP, NCA, WHATEVER YOU ARE LOOKING AT. LOOKING AT THE ELECTROLYTES AND THE SEPARATORS. THE SALTS WITHIN THE ELECTROLYTES. THAT IS THE SECRET SAUCE FROM A LOT OF THE MANUFACTURERS. HAD WE MANAGE DIFFERENT TEMPERATURES? IT IS THE SALT. LOOKING AT THE CELL CONSTRUCTION. WE USE OPPOSING INTABS. IT IS VERY HARD TO DROP A WRENCH OR A SCREWDRIVER ACROSS A SINGLE CELL AND GET A SHORT WHEN THEY ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES.ON THE SAME SIDE, IT IS MUCH EASIER TO DO THAT. IT ALSO ALLOWS US TO HAVE IN NERTABS THIS WAY. POUNCH CELLS TEND TO HAVE NEUTRAL CASINGS. YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CAN POSITIVE IS WHEN YOU START TO DO YOUR PACKAGING. SEPARATORS, NOT ONLY LOOKING AT THE PROCESS, WHETHER IT IS A WINDING PROCESS OR A STACKING PROCESS, BUT YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE SEPARATOR MATERIALS. MANUFACTURERS ARE LOOKING AT CERAMICS, OTHER ADVANCED MATERIALS TO HELP IMPROVE THE SAFETY READING AND INCREASE THE TEMPERATURE IN WHICH THERMAL ONSET WOULD OCCUR, THEREBY MAKING THE BATTERIES SAFER. BMS IS THE BRAINS OF THE BATTERY. ON MY K LEAD ACID BATTERY -- UNLIKE A LEAD ACID BATTERY, IT DOES NOT NEED CONTROLS. BMS IS THE COMPUTER THAT RUNS THE BATTERIES. IT IS TYPICALLY A DISTRIBUTED SYSTEM. THERE ARE VARIOUS LEVELS OF CONTROLS. IT IS COORDINATING INPUT AND GIVING DIRECTION, COMMUNICATING WITH THE VESSEL, COMMUNICATING WITH THE POWER APPLICATIONS. AND WILL LET THE VESSEL KNOW THIS IS HOW MUCH POWER I HAVE AVAILABLE TO YOU RIGHT NOW, AND HERE'S HOW LONG IT WILL LAST. IT OFFERS A REDUNDANT FEATURE IN MOST CASES. YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME REDUNDANCY BUILT IN TO PROTECT FOR THE WHAT IF SITUATION. CELL BALANCING, MOST USES A RESISTANT TECHNOLOGY. IS A LOT OF RESEARCH INTO ACTIVE BALANCING 5, 6, 7 YEARS AGO, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE HAS BEEN MUCH SUCCESSFUL APPLICATION OF IT TO HAVE A BENEFIT TO THE SYSTEM. THE BMS, DATE IS MANAGING THE THERMAL SYSTEM, THE BATTERY. BATTERIES ARE A LOT LIKE YOU AND I. THEY ARE COMFORTABLE AT THE SAME TEMPERATURE WE ARE COMFORTABLE AT. IF YOU ARE CALLING OUTSIDE, THEY WILL BE COLD ALSO AND DO NOT OPERATE AS WELL. YOU WANT TO KEEP THEM THERMALLY MANAGED AND KEEP THEM WITHIN THE COMFORTABLE ZONE. THAT IS WHAT THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM HAS DONE. THAT IS WHAT IT IS DESIGNED TO DO, TO OPTIMIZE THE SYSTEM TO GIVE IT A LIFE FOR THAT PARTICULAR APPLICATION. MOVING TO THE NEXT STEP, ACTS IN THE SYSTEMS -- PACKS IN THE SYSTEMS. MOST MANUFACTURERS HAVE THEIR OWN. IN A POUCH CELL, YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR EXPANSION CONTRACTION. THAT IS SOMETHING A LOT INTEGRATORS HAVE FAILED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT. LITHIUM-ION CELLS BREATHE. THEY EXPAND AND CONTRACT SLIGHTLY THROUGH THE OPERATION CYCLE. AS THE IONS PASS BACK AND FORTH, THEY WILL EXPAND AND THEN CONTRACT. THAT WILL CONTINUE SO THEY WILL GROW OVER THEIR LIFE. WHEN YOU ARE DESIGNING A MODULE, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT SO YOU ARE ADDING PRESSURE ON THERE THAT DOES NOT GIVE IT TO MUCH LIGHT BUT MANAGES THROUGH THE EARLY PART OF THE LIFE. YOU WANT TO LOOK AT YOUR CONNECTIONS, WILL DID MAKE IT -- WELDED CONNECTIONS, MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS. WE USE FASTENERS WHICH ALLOW THEM TO BE BROKEN DOWN. THERMAL MANAGEMENT, AND I IS A LOT OF QUESTIONS AROUND THERMAL MANAGEMENT. YOU CAN USE AIR COOLING, LIQUID COOLING, INDIRECT, DIRECT COOLING. IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU WILL USE THE VESSEL, THE APPLICATION. IF IT WILL BE A LONG-DURATION DISCHARGE, YOU WILL NOT GENERATE A LOT OF HEAT. IF YOU WILL BE DOING A LOT OF PULSES, A LOT OF POWER QUICKLY, YOU WILL START GENERATING HEAT. YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO REMOVE THAT. THE TYPE OF SYSTEM WILL DEPEND LARGELY ON HOW YOU USE THE SYSTEM. LOOKING AT THE OVERALL SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE, YOU MAY BE BREAKING INTO STRINGS SO THAT FROM A RELIABILITY OR REDUNDANCY STANDPOINT, YOU CAN TURN ONE OFF AND USE THE OTHER SYSTEMS TO KEEP THE SYSTEM OPERATIONAL. AT THE SYSTEM LEVEL, YOU ARE TAKING THOSE STRINGS, TIME THEM TOGETHER, COMMUNICATING WITH THE VEHICLE, ENSURING THE REDUNDANCY. THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO MENTION AND THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE BELIEVED IN FOR A LONG TIME, BUT A VESSEL INTEGRATION REQUIRES A FUNCTIONAL SAFETY STRATEGY. THAT IS DEFINED AS THE DETECTION OF A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS CONDITION RESULTING IN THE ACTIVATION OF A PROTECTION OR CORRECTIVE DEVICE OR MECHANISM TO PREVENT HAZARDOUS DEVICE FROM PROVIDING MEDICATION TO REDUCE THE CONSEQUENCE OF HAZZARD CEME NTS. THAT IS RISK MANAGEMENT. AS YOU ARE LOOKING AT YOUR SYSTEM DESIGN, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE THINKING IN THAT STANDPOINT, WHAT HAPPENS IF. SOME OTHER CONSIDERATIONS, THE POWER AND THE LOW-PROFILE. HOW WILL YOU USE THE BATTERY? HOW MUCH ENERGY TO YOU NEED? HOW LONG DO YOU NEED IT? THE UNIQUE A MEGAWATT OVER THREE MINUTES OR OVER THREE DAYS -- DO YOU NEED A MEGAWATT OVER THREE MINUTES OR OVER THREE DAYS? WHAT IS THAT OPERATIONAL PROFILE? IS IT GOING TO BE A FULL ELECTRIC APPLICATION? ARE YOU GOING TO USE IT TO PROVIDE HOUSING LOANS? IS IT GOING TO POWER YOUR THRUSTERS? IT WILL DEFINE HOW YOU WILL SIZE THAT BATTERY. LOOKING AT THE ENVIRONMENT, WILL YOU PUT IT ON A CONTAINER OR UNDERNEATH IN A BATTERY ROOM? WILL IT BE USED IN THE ARCTIC VERSUS THE INDIAN OCEAN? TWO VERY DIFFERENT TEMPERATURE PROFILES SO TWO DIFFERENT THERMAL MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS. WE WERE WORKING WITH A CUSTOMER LOOKING AT THE INDIAN OCEAN FOR THE CHALLENGE WE RAN INTO IS THERMALLY MANAGING THE BATTERY. IT RAISES THE TEMPERATURE OF THE BATTERY SO YOU ARE STARTING AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE POINT SO WE HAVE TWO COOL THE BATTERIES DOWN. ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT ONE OF THE GUYS I WORK WITH IS HULL SHAP ESPECIALLYE SMALL VESSELS. AS SOME OF THE VESSEL DESIGNERS START LOOKING, THAT WILL DEFINE HOW MUCH POWER YOU WILL NEED. AUTOMOTIVE AERODYNAMICS. IN THE MARINE WORLD, IT WILL BE THE HULL SHAPE. AGAIN, WHAT OF THE QUESTIONS I HEARD THIS MORNING IS WHAT TYPES OF VESSELS IN THESE GO ON? MY PERSONAL BELIEF IS THAT WORK BOTH TEND -- BAOTS OATS TEND TO BE THE NATURAL PLACE TO START AT. ENJOYMENT OUT OF U.K., WE WALKED THROUGH A WORK PROFILE FOR THE WIND FARM SUPPORT VESSELS AND IT IS A PERFECT APPLICATION BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT IS USED. ANGER VESSELS, PLATFORMS -- ANCHOR VESSELS, PLATFORMS. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH VISION YOU CANNOT ELECTRIFY PHILOSOPHICALLY. THE QUESTION IS WHERE DOES THE PROPERTY COMMITTEE E IN? DIESELS WANTS TO RUN AT ONE SPEED. MAYBE NOT AS MUCH VALUE IN ELECTRIFICATION FOR THEM. FOR THOSE VESSELS, ABSOLUTELY. YOU HAVE A WHOLE GROUP OF ORGANIZATIONS STARTING TO WORK TOWARDS THAT AND A BUNCH OF THEM IN THE ROOM TODAY SO I DO THINK THERE IS ANY APPLICATION THAT COULD NOT BE ELECTRIFIED. THE QUESTION IS WHICH WAS MAKE THE MOST SENSE? IN THE END, I THINK LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES ARE A GREAT SOLUTION. THEY WILL OFFER GREAT PERFORMANCE AND SUPPORT THE LIFE OF THE VESSELS. SOME OF THE OTHER COMPANIES YOU WILL SEE HOW SOLUTIONS TODAY WHICH CAN MEET THE APPLICATION NEEDS. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] 

>> WE WILL TAKE QUESTIONS DURING THE Q&A. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS SCOTT. HE IS A COFOUNDER AND SERVED AS THE COMPANY CHIEF TECHNICAL OFFICER SINCE 2004. PHD FROM THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY. THE TITLE OF HIS TALK IS LITHIUM-ION BATTERY OFF GAS MONITORING. WE WILL TAKE A MOMENT TO PULL UP HIS TALK. 

>> THANK YOU, AND I AM PLEASED TO BE HERE. I WILL TALK ABOUT A PRODUCT TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS. BASICALLY, WE THE PRESENTATION TITLE IS LITHIUM-ION GAS MONITORING AND I HOPE TO JOIN YOU HOW THIS CAN BE ONE COMPONENT OF AN OVERALL SAFETY SYSTEM FOR USING LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES IN A RANGE OF APPLICATIONS. I WILL GIVE A LITTLE INTRODUCTION. WHY OFF GASSING IS IMPORTANT AS A TECHNIQUE, WE HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING A TECHNIQUE THAT WE BELIEVE HAS A POTENTIAL FOR USE IN AN OVERALL SAFETY SYSTEM IN A VARIETY OF CONFIGURATIONS AND TALK ABOUT THE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT STATUS . WE HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR 22 YEARS. OUR HERITAGE IS IN ELECTROCHEMICAL DEVICES, SO WE DEVELOP TECHNOLOGY AND PRODUCTS. WE ARE NOT IN THE AREAS OF FUEL CELLS, AND OFF GAS MONITORING IS OUR LATEST VENTURE. WE ARE A MANUFACTURING DISTRICT LEADER OF FUEL CELLS AND RELATED PRODUCTS IN THE INDUSTRY. WE MANUFACTURE SENSORS AS WELL A . WE ARE CERTIFIED, AND SOME OF YOU IN THE ROOM MAY HAVE REMEMBERED A COMPANY BY ANOTHER NAME. THAT IS US. WE CHANGED OUR NAME IN 2015. REALLY, OUR VISION IS TO FOCUS ON OUR CORE STRENGTHS AND MATERIAL SCIENCE AND CREATE PRODUCTS THAT IMPROVE QUALITY EFFICIENCY AND SAFETY OF ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SYSTEMS . WE HAVE TWO BRAND S. THAT AS A BUSINESS WE STARTED IN 2000 AND WE LAUNCHED OUR FIRST PRODUCT IN 2010. JUST TO DEFINE THE PROBLEM, WHICH IS WHAT THE FOCUS OF THIS WORKSHOP IS, LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES ARE CONCENTRATED ENERGY SOURCES. SOMETIMES WHEN THEY ARE ABUSED, BAD THINGS CAN HAPPEN. IN RARE CASES, THESE CATASTROPHIC EVENTS CAN OCCUR WHEN NOT NECESSARILY SUBJECTED TO IMPROPER CONDITIONS. THE DESIRE IS FOR SAFETY BATTERY SYSTEMS, NOT JUST THE ABILITY TO ISOLATE THESE EVENTS, BUT ALSO TO PREDICT AND IDEALLY AVOID THEM ALTOGETHER. I WILL SHOW YOU RESULTS TODAY THAT PERHAPS OUR TECHNOLOGY IS HELPING ALONG THOSE LINES. OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS SOME VERY HIGH-PROFILE EXAMPLES. EVERYONE HAS HEARD ABOUT THE HOVERBOARDS, WHICH OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, A LOT OF INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN REPORTED. ALSO THE -- CAN WE GO ONE BACK? THERE WAS A LOT OF LITHIUM-ION BATTERY FIRES THAT RELATED TO THE NATIONAL HEALTH TRANSPORTATION SAFETY. AND INITIATED A LARGE STUDY AFTER SOME BATTERY RELATED CAR FIRES. WE ALSO TALKED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER TODAY ABOUT THE BOEING 787 SITUATION. IN 2008, THE NAVY WAS DEVELOPING A SEAL DEVELOPING SYSTEM. THE BATTERY FIRE AND DID THAT PROGRAM -- ENDED THAT PROGRAM. ALSO THE SAMSUNG BATTERY FIRE IN THEIR NOTE SYSTEMS. WE HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF THIS WORK WITH THE SUPPORT OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS, BUT AS NEW CAPABILITIES ARE GENERATED IN THE MILITARY, THE NEED FOR LARGER AND LARGER AMOUNTS OF POWER IN SMALLER SPACES IS IMPORTANT, AND THERE IS A LOT OF APPLICATIONS, DIRECTED ENERGY WEAPONS, UNMANNED VEHICLES , INCREASING THE DURABILITY AND LONGEVITY OF MISSIONS FOR UAV 'S, AND THIS IS ACROSS ALL BRANCHES OF MILITARY. SOME CURRENT APPROACHES. INTERNAL BATTERIES, THERE IS A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE. WE TALKED ABOUT BATTERY CHEMISTRIES. THERMAL MANAGEMENT, NON-PROPAGATING DESIGNS, AND THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM HAS A LOT TO DO WITH MAINTAINING SAFETY. THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO. EXTERNAL BATTERY MODULES. PHYSICALLY PROTECT THEM AGAINST VIBRATION, CRUSH, PACK LEVEL CONTROLLERS, AND FIRE FOR PREVENTION SYSTEMS. THE LITHIUM ION BATTERY RELIABILITY AND SAFETY IS A SYSTEM CONSIDERATION. IS IN THE CELL, DESIGN, PACK. OUR APPROACH TODAY INVOLVES EARLY DETECTION OF OFF GASSIN ING TO PREVENT FAILURE. JUST TO TALK ABOUT OFF GASSING, THE THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN, GAS PRESSURE BUILDS IN CELLS. A HEATED ELECTORALLY VAPORIZE AND DECOMPOSE. EXOTHERMIC CELL REACTIONS LEAD TO GAS GENERATION AND ULTIMATELY A THERMAL EVENT. IF WE CAN DETECT THIS GAS BEFORE THE THERMAL EVENT OCCURS, THERE COULD BE A MEANS OF PROVIDING A UNIQUE INNOVATION AND WE CAN USE THIS AS A MEANS OF PREVENTING A RUNAWAY. THIS IS REALLY A SLIDE THAT CAME FROM WHAT WE WERE DOING ON A PROJECT 2012 TO 2015, OVER THAT TIME FRAME. THE DATA THAT IS SHOWN IS THE VARIOUS GAS SPECIES THAT CAN HAPPEN DURING A BATTERY OFF GASSING EVENT OR A BATTERY THERMAL RUNAWAY. I WILL TRY TO WALK YOU THROUGH THIS. BASICALLY, WE ARE SEE THERE IS RELATIVELY NOTHING HAPPENING BEFORE THERMAL RUNAWAY EXCEPT FOR THE OFF GAS. THIS PRESENT CE IS DETECTED WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE THERMAL RUNAWAY. THE PREMISE OF OUR TECHNOLOGY AND PRODUCT IS, IF WE CAN DETECT THAT IN ADVANCE, THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO. IT GIVES US A WARNING THAT SOMETHING BAD MIGHT BE HAPPENING. THERE IS A CHANCE WE CAN DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT THE THERMAL RUNAWAY FROM OCCURRING. I WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THERMAL ABUSE TESTING. THIS SHOWS THE SETUP. WE ARE TAKING THE BATTERY, HEATING THAT BATTERY WITH OUR SENSOR TO DETECT THE OFF GAS SPECIES. WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS US TO SAMPLE THE ATMOSPHERE WITHIN THE CHAMBER AS THE BATTERY IS BEING HEATED. WE THEN COLLECT SAMPLES OF GASES AND COLLECT THE USE OF -- TO DETERMINE WHAT IS GOING ON IN THERE. BASICALLY, WE ARE CHARACTERIZING WHAT IS HAPPENING DURING ABUSE TESTING. THIS IS JUST THE RESULT. ON THE TOP RIGHT CHART, WE ARE HEATING THAT CELL. DIRECTOR IS A HEATING RATE -- THE RED CURVE IS A HEATING RATE. AFTER 90 MINUTES, WE SEE OFF GAS . THAT IS BEFORE THERMAL RUNAWAY. AS YOU FOLLOW THE RED CURVE FURTHER, THE RATE OF EATING INCREASES -- HEATING INCREASES DRAMATICALLY. AT 200 OURS, THAT IS WHERE THE THERMAL EVENT OCCURRED. ON THE LOWER RIGHT, WE WERE ABLE TO DETECT ONE PPM WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE THERMAL EVENT. IN THIS CASE, 20 MINUTES BEFORE THE THERMAL EVENT, WE WERE ABLE TO DETECT THE OFF GAS SPECIES. WE HAVE ALSO BEEN BUILDING CAPABILITY FOR BATTERY FAILURE TESTING SO THAT WE CAN TAKE OUR PRODUCT THAT WE ARE DEVELOPING AND CHARACTERIZED IT UNDER A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT CONDITIONS WITH DIFFERENT BATTERY CHEMISTRIES, DIFFERENT BATTERY TYPES. THERE IS A RANGE OF DIFFERENT BATTERY CONFIGURATION SIZES SO MANY TO UNDERSTAND HOW OUR PRODUCT WILL SERVE THESE VARIOUS BATTERIES. WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING THIS CAPABILITY. WE CONTINUE TO CHARACTERIZE THE OFFGASSING MECHANISMS. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A TEST WE DID IN INDIANAPOLIS OR INDIA CLOSE TO INDIANAPOLIS. WE WERE WORKING WITH A POUCH CELL. WE TAKE THAT AND PUT IT INTO AN ENCLOSURE TO MIMIC A BATTERY MODULE. WE ABUSE THIS WITH OVERCHARGE UNTIL WE GET TO FAILURE. THE NEXT IS A MOVIE. IT IS WORKING. WE DETECTED OFF GAS 90 SECONDS PRIOR TO THERMAL RUNAWAY. IN FUTURE TESTS, THERE WAS ACTION TAKEN. WE HAD A SHOWING OF THE FIRE GOING ON AFTER THE THERMAL RUNAWAY, BUT I GUESS THAT WILL NOT SHOW. THIS IS SHOWING THE DATA. IN THIS CASE, WE WERE CHARGING AT 5C OVERCHARGE RATE AND 12.5 FOR 12 MINUTES. OFF GAS SIGNAL WAS THREE MINUTES IN ADVANCE OF THE THERMAL RUNAWAY WHEN THE TEMPERATURE SPIKED. THREE MINUTES IN ADVANCE OF THE THERMAL RUNAWAY. NEXT SLIDE. IN THIS CASE, RIGHT AS WE DETECTED THE OFF GAS SIGNAL, SAME EXACT EXPERIMENT CONDUCTED IN THE SAME WAY TO STOP CHARGING AND THAT PREVENTED THEM ABOUT IT FROM HAPPENING. WE WERE TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THIS CAPABILITY CAN BE USED NOT JUST TO PROVIDE WARNING BUT AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME MEDICATION. -- MITIGATION. THIS INTRODUCES OUR PRODUCT. WE CALL IT THE LITHIUM-ION CHAMBER AND IS A BATTERY OFFGAS MONITOR. THE PLATFORM SHOW TO THE RIGHT IS WHAT THE FORM FACTOR IS. IT IS ABOUT 1.3 INCHES BY 1.4 INCHES AND .6 WIDE. WE FIGHT ON RELEASING THIS IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF 20 -- WE PLAN ALL RELEASING THIS PRODUCT IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2017. IT WILL PROVIDE AN EARLY WARNING SIGNAL FOR SHUTDOWN OR OTHER MITIGATIONS. OUR CURRENT THOUGHT IS TO HAVE ONE PER BATTERY MODULE TO ADD A LEVEL OF SAFETY. THIS IS JUST ONE CONFIGURATION WE CAN USE THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR. IT CAN BE USED IN OTHER WAYS. IT CAN BE A STANDALONE DEVICE WITH FIRE SUPPRESSION WITH OR WITHOUT THE BMS. THIS IS ONE CONFIGURATION. CLICK ONE MORE TIME. WELL, IF YOU COULD, I THINK UNIT YOU NEED TO GET THE CURSOR. THIS IS JUST A CARTOON. IT SHOWS HOW WE THINK THIS CAN WORK. CLICK IN THE MIDDLE. OH WELL. BASICALLY, IT WAS TRYING TO SHOW HOW THIS PARTICULAR DEVICE WOULD ALLOW US TO INTEGRATE WITH A SYSTEM THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO IDENTIFY WHICH MODULE IS THE FAULTY MODULE. THAT MODULE COULD BE SHUT DOWN, AND THE ENTIRE SYSTEM COULD BE SAVED. IN TERMS OF THE PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT STATUS, WE ARE LOOKING TO DESIGN OUR PRODUCT IN THE NEXT GENERATION MILITARY PACKAGING MARITIME SYSTEMS. WE ARE TESTING WITH BATTERIES TO ABOUT YOUR PRODUCT OVER A RANGE OF POSSIBLE USE SCENARIOS. WE ARE ASSESSING OFFGASSING CHARACTERISTICS, POSSIBLE MITIGATING ACTIONS, WERE EARLY TRENDS -- OR EARLY TRENDS. WE ARE PROVIDING PROTOTYPES TO CUSTOMERS. OUR PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT TEAM. ONE IS AN AUDIENCE. HOPEFULLY THERE IS PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO US. ACKNOWLEDGMENTS, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE FINANCIAL SUPPORT, SPECIFICALLY JOHN, WILL BE SPEAKING LATER IN THE DAY. WORKING ON THAT PROJECT WAS IN THE -- WAS INCREDIBLY VALUABLE FOR US. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] 

>> SORRY I MISPRONOUNCED THE NAME OF THE COMPANY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I INSERTED AN EXTRA C. ANYWAY, OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS BRIAN BAKER. BRIAN LEADS THE TEST ENERGY TEAM . HE HAS HAD THE HONOR OF DOING THE FIRST LITHIUM-ION ESS THROUGH TYPE APPROVAL, AN ACCOMPLISHMENT ACHIEVED WITH EACH OF -- YOU IS ALSO PLANNED AND LED THE THERMAL RUNAWAY TEST PROGRAM CULMINATING IN CELL LEVEL WILL ISOLATION. THE TITLE OF HIS TALK IS LESSONS LEARNED FROM BATTERY INSTALLATIONS. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANKS VERY MUCH. GO AHEAD AND LOAD THIS UP. BASICALLY, I CAN JUST MAYBE TALK WHILE THEY ARE LOADING IT UP. I JUST WANTED TO GIVE THE TITLE OF MY PRESENTATION, LESSONS LEARNED IN BATTERY INSTALLATIONS, AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN DOING THIS FOR MANY YEARS, AND WE HAVE LEARNED QUITE A FEW THINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS VERY KEY, AND IT TOUCHES ON WHAT DR. HILL TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, IS I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE SURROUNDING LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES. IT IS EASY TO GO TO YOUTUBE AND SEE ALL KINDS OF VERY ENERGIZING THINGS FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM. THEY SHOW THAT BECAUSE IT IS WHAT GRABS HEADLINES. IT MAKES SENSE, RIGHT? TO TAKE IT OUT OF CONTEXT REALLY DOES A DISSERVICE. THAT IS WHY I THOUGHT DR. HILL'S PRESENTATION WAS REALLY GOOD BECAUSE IT PUTS THE CONTEXT BACK IN AND SAYS AVOID THE KNEE-JERK REACTION OF SAYING I HAVE SEEN THIS, THEREFORE I DO NOT WANT THIS ON MY MUSCLE -- VESSEL. ON THE TECHNOLOGY EXISTS IN THIS ROOM TODAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, AND IT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE GLOBE, SO WE SHOULD MEASURE WE LEVERAGE THAT AND BRING IT FORWARD AND SEE SOME REAL FUEL SAVINGS AND COST SAVINGS FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM AS WELL. I WILL SEE IF THIS IS WORKING. THIS IS ONE OF THE DRIVERS OF COURSE FOR THESE INSTALLATIONS. IT IS THE FRAGILE ECOSYSTEM THAT SOME PEOPLE OPERATE IN. THE FIRST SLIDE WAS A VILLAGE IN NORTHERN NORWAY. VERY NORTHERN. IT IS ABOUT EVEN WITH ALASKA, SOMEWHAT ON THE NORTHERN TIP OF OUR CONTINENT. OPERATING IN THOSE AREAS, YOU HAVE TO BE COGNIZANT OF YOUR EMISSIONS AND THE IMPACT IT IS HAVING ON THE ECOSYSTEM. THAT IS ONE OF THE DRIVERS. THE OTHER MAIN DRIVERS OF COURSE, FUEL EFFICIENCY. WE ARE SEEING GREAT OPPORTUNITIES TO SAVE FUEL. THAT IS MONEY RIGHT BACK IN ALL THE OWNERS'S POCKETS. NEXT SLIDE. JUST A BIT ABOUT CORBIS ENERGY ITSELF. LOST IN 20 -- LAUNCHED IN 2010. THE FIRST INSTALLATION IN 2011. PICKING UP MORE INSTALLATIONS IN 2012. THIS IS OUR FIRST GENERATION MODULE. DID A LOT OF WORK ON THIS ORIGINAL OSV INSTALLATION. THE VIKING LADY THAT WAS WORKING IN NORWEGIAN WATERS. PRINCESS BENEDICT, AT THE TIME THE WORLD'S LARGEST HYBRID FERRY. THERE WAS A QUESTION THAT CAME UP BEFORE, HOW BIG CAN THE VESSELS BE? THERE IS ESSENTIALLY NO LIMIT. IT COMES DOWN TO PROPER SIZING AND MAKING SURE YOU ARE DOING YOUR HOMEWORK AND PUTTING IN THE PACK SIZES APPLICABLE FOR YOU. I WILL GET INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT AS WELL. WE DID A TRIAL WITH THEM. 2.6 MEGAWATT HOURS. THAT WAS OVER 30 METRIC TONS OF BATTERIES TO BE INTO THAT SORT OF LEVEL. NEARLY 400 OF OUR MODULES, WHICH ARE 70 KILOGRAMS A PIECE. THEY BASICALLY TOOK A SET OUT IN THE REAL ESTATE THEY FREED UP, THEY PUT IN THE 400 MODULES. I THINK ON THE ROUTE WE WERE RUNNING, THEY WERE SEEING 15% FUEL SAVINGS. BASED ON THAT OBVIOUSLY, THEY WENT AND PUT THE THREE SISTER SHIPS TO THIS AND DID A GREAT. THIS ONE WAS BETWEEN THE SOUTHERN TIP OF DENMARK AND THE NORTHERN TIP OF GERMANY. THEY NOW HAVE ALL FOUR VESSELS RUNNING THAT SYSTEM. WE DID TWO RECENT VESSELS WITH THEM AS WELL THAT RUN BETWEEN A DIFFERENT PORT IN DENMARK TO GERMANY. ELECTRIC FERRY, ONE SHIP OF THE YEAR -- WON SHIP OF THE YEAR IN 2015. IT IS CALLED THE WORLD'S GREENEST FERRY. IT HAS BATTERY INSTALLATIONS. THIS IS AN INTERESTING ONE. RUBBER TIRE CRANES. THEY ARE SIZED TO LIVE THE GOOD THING ABOUT WHEN THEY HAVE TO LOWER THAT, ALL OF THAT GOES TO HEAT AND BREAKING. A GREAT REGENERATIVE POSSIBILITY THERE. I SAW A DMV STUDY ON THIS THAT SAID YOU CAN GET 75% PURE REDUCTION BY MOVING TO A HYBRID SYSTEM, WHICH IS MIND BLOWING HONESTLY. WE ARE SEEING 65% EASILY ON THOSE ONES. OF APPLICATIONS, LONG-RANGE UNDERWATER VEHICLE THAT WE DID OR BOEING. WE BUILT A CUSTOM BATTERY PACK FOR THAT. WE HAVE DEPLOYED OVER 35 MEGAWATT HOURS ON OVER 50 PROJECTS AROUND THE WORLD. THIS IS GOING BACK TO 2011, 2012 . WE ARE GENERATING A OF OPERATING HOURS AND THIS DATA IS BEING STORED WE CAN GO THROUGH THAT TO LOOK FOR FURTHER EFFICIENCIES AS WELL. WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TODAY REALLY IS EVERYBODY COMES FROM A VARIED BACKGROUND. HE CAN PROBABLY PICK OFF TO OR THREE THINGS YOU MIGHT CONSIDER TO BE CHALLENGES. WHAT I WANT TO DO IS GET BEYOND THE FIRST LEVEL AND TALK ABOUT SOME SECONDARY LEVEL THAT WE SAW BY GOING ONTO THESE VESSELS. BASICALLY I WANTED TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF INTRODUCTION ABOUT SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE AND TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF SIZING YOUR PACK PROPERLY AND AN EXERCISE ON HOW TO DO THAT. A VERY SHORT EXERCISE. THE IMPORTANCE OF CELL SELECTION. TAKEAWAYS FROM SAFETY INCIDENTS WE HAVE SEEN. FOLLOWING UP WITH DESIGNING FOR SAFETY. STARTING OFF WITH SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE, NOT SURE IF EVERYBODY IS FAMILIAR WITH THIS SO I WILL WALK YOU THROUGH HOW OUR SYSTEMS AND HOW WORKING WITH INTEGRATORS, THIS IS MOST OFTEN HOW THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY INSTALLED. WE START OFF AT THE SOLO -- CELL LEVE. WITH WIT -- CELL LEVEL. WE PUT 24 OF THOSE. BY THE TIME YOU PUT THAT IN THAT ARRANGEMENT, IT BASICALLY MEANS YOU ARE PUTTING TWO CELLS IN PARALLEL AND THEY BECOME A SERIOUS ELEMENT AND YOU STACK THEM UP IN SERIES TO GET YOUR 48-50 VOLTS. THAT BECOMES THE MODULE. WE HAD 400 OF THESE ON ONE VESSEL. YOU BUILD IT UP INTO A PACK. PUTTING IT INTO A PACK, YOU RUN THE MODULES IN SERIES. THIS WHAT HAPPENS TO SHOW 10 MODULE AT A MAXIMUM VOLTAGE OF 50 VOLTS. THAT WOULD BE A 500 VOLTS DC PACK. WE HAD A PACK CONTROLLER, WHICH IS YOUR ABILITY TO INTERRUPT THE VOLTAGE. THAT IS WHERE WE TIE INTO THE CUSTOMER'S BUS AT THAT POINT. WE HAVE A DISTRIBUTED BMS. JOHN I SAW THAT HIS RECITATION -- JOHN TOUCHED ON THAT IN HIS PRESENTATION. THEY ARE ALL TALKING TO ONE ANOTHER. IF WE HAVE TO TAKE ANY STEPS TO OPEN UP THE PACK, WE WILL DO SO AT THE PACK CONTROLLER LEVEL. WE HAVE OUR FUSES THEIR, SWITCHGEAR, CURRENT MONITORING, ALL THE PRAISE WE NEED THERE. ESSENTIALLY THIS IS WHERE IT BECOMES UNLIMITED. FOR THE MOST PART, WE ARE VOLTAGE LIMITED. WE CANNOT REALLY SAY WITHOUT MORE ENGINEERING WE WANT TO HAVE A 3000 VOLT PACK BECAUSE WE WILL RUN INTO ISOLATION ISSUES. WE WILL NOT NECESSARILY FIND EQUIPMENT THAT IS OUT THERE THAT WILL BE RATED TO THOSE VOLTAGES. RIGHT NOW 100, 0, 1100, 1200 VOLTS IS POSSIBLE. ENGINEERING WILL TAKE US A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. AS WE ARE RIGHT NOW, THERE IS THE LEVEL . WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE LIMIT TO CAPACITY, WE HAD OUR BUILDING BLOCK, WHICH BECOMES ESSENTIALLY THE PACKS. WE CAN KEEP PUTTING THOSE IN PARALLEL AND PUT ON AS MANY AS WE WANT. JUST TO TOUCH BACK TO THAT ONE, THE FERRY IN DENMARK HAD 21 MODULES IN A PACK AND 19 OF THOSE PACKS. THE VOLTAGE WAS 1050. THE CAPACITY TAKES IT UP TO THE 2.6 MEGAWATT HOURS. ESSENTIALLY FROM TYING THAT INTO THE BUS, THE INTEGRATOR LIVES AT THAT AS A VIRTUAL GENERATOR. I HAVE HEARD THAT SAID RECENTLY AND THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR HOW THEY WANT TO USE IT. THEY SEE THAT AS THE ABILITY TO DELIVER ENERGY OUR , POWER, AND THEY TREAT IT AS SUCH. A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF THE ARCHITECTURE. AT THE MODULE LEVEL, WE ARE LOOKING AT CELL TEMPERATURES, VOLTAGE, AND CURRENT. THE BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM , IT IS MAKING DECISIONS AND UNDERSTANDING AND COMMUNICATING ACROSS TO THE INTEGRATOR WHO IS RUNNING THE EMS OR THE PMS, WHAT DO WE NEED FROM THEM? THEY WILL BE SETTING THE VOLTAGE ON THE BUS, WHICH IS A CONTROLLED DISCHARGE AND CHARGE R ATE. DO WE NEED OR CAN WE STAY CONNECTED OR DO WE NEED TO DISCONNECT? THE NEXT THING, IMPORTANCE OF PACK SIZING. I WILL SKIP AHEAD ONE MORE. IMAGINE THIS IS A 24-HOUR FICTIONAL LOAD PROFILE FOR A VESSEL. FOR ANY NEW BUILD, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS IS ANYWAY, AND THAT WENT INTO SIZING THE ORIGINAL PROPULSION SYSTEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. GENERALLY, THE BETTER HANDLE YOU HAVE ON THIS, THE TIGHTER SPEC YOU CAN PROVIDE AS FAR AS PUTTING A SYSTEM ON. THE RAPID UNDULATIONS IS APPROXIMATELY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY SEE ON YOUR BUS. WE CAN ALMOST DO CHANGE THAT INTO THE DIFFERENT LEVELS WE NEED AND BEGIN TO SIZE IT FROM THAT. IT STARTS WITH THE PROFILE. WE ADD ANY EXISTING GENERATOR SET OF YOU HAVE ON BOARD. LOOK AT ALL YOUR DIFFERENT CORNER CASES, OTHER USE CASES. MAYBE YOU NEED AN EXTRA BURST FOR HIGH SEAS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. LOOKING AT WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE ON BOARD, YOU ARE LOCKED INTO YOUR VOLTAGE AND YOU CAN COME UP WITH AN ESTIMATION FOR YOUR PACK SIZE. CHECK YOUR OVERALL ENERGY USAGE. IS NOT GOING TO COVER THE PROFILE WE TALKED ABOUT? IF NOT, WE CAN INCREASE THE PACK SIZE OR TURN IT DOWN. WE HAVE ALREADY CHOSEN OVERVOLTAGE SO WE KNOW HOW MANY MODULES ARE GOING TO GO INTO A PACK. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW MANY MULTIPLES OF THOSE PACKS ARE WE REALLY GOING TO INSTALL? YOU ARE PRIMARILY CHECKING ENERGY AND LOOKING FOR ANY PEAK POWER? WHAT DEPTH OF DISCHARGE DO I NEED TO ACHIEVE THAT? LOOKING AT THE RESULTING TEMPERATURES THAT ARE GOING TO COME FROM THAT, AGAIN, REITERATING THE SIZING LOOP. THE FINAL CHECK IS REALLY YOUR OVERALL CYCLES FOR YOUR LIFETIME. IS THAT GOING TO PUT YOU INTO A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE WORKED THEM TOO HARD, AND THEY WILL GIVE YOU THE LIFE YOU EXPECTED IT BE ABLE TO MEET YOUR MISSION YEARS INTO THE FUTURE? THAT IS A QUICK SUMMARY ON THAT, WHICH I WANTED TO TOUCH ON. QUICK WORD ON CELL SELECTION. I PROBABLY DO NOT NEED TO SAY THIS GIVEN THE AUDIENCE IN THE ROOM TODAY, BUT I WILL SAY IT ANYWAY. THESE ARE NOT YOUR HOVERBOARD BATTERIES, NOT YOUR LAPTOP BATTERIES, NOT YOUR CELL PHONE BATTERIES. THEY HAVE THE SPECS ATTACHED TO A CELL PHONE BATTERY THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE SPECS ATTACHED TO SOMETHING THAT WILL END UP POWERING A VESSEL. THEY WILL COME IN WITH A BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, MAYBE A CURRENT INTERRUPT DEVICE. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS INDUSTRIAL GRADE COMPONENTS TO DO INDUSTRIAL WORK. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED. ARE OF RAMPING UP PRODUCTION -- PART OF RAMPING UP PRODUCTION IS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CELL QUALITY IS STILL THERE. THESE ARE NOT GOING TO BE BARGAIN-BASEMENT CELLS QUESTIONABLE SUPPLIERS. THESE WILL BE TOP-TIER SUPPLIERS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVEN AND WE KNOW WILL MEET THE GRADE. WHEN WE GET INTO LARGER SYSTEMS LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY LOOK AT SOME NOVEL SAFETY SYSTEMS THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN PUT THEM ON A TESLA, BUT THEY MAKE A LOT OF SENSE FOR A VESSEL. YOU GET INTO THOSE OTHER ANTI-PROPAGATING MEASURES. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO MENTION WITH THIS SLIDE IS THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD EXISTING NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS. WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT ANOTHER EXISTING ONE. THERE IS A LOT OUT THERE. THERE IS NO NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL. WE WILL BE LEVERAGING ALL THE EXISTING WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE GOING FORWARD. AS I MENTIONED, THE TITLE OF MY TALK WAS LESSONS LEARNED IN INSTALLATION. THE OTHER STUFF WAS IN A SENSE PREAMBLE. THIS IS THE MEAT OF IT. WHAT ARE SOME THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED THAT CAN MAKE A MATERIAL DIFFERENCE GOING FORWARD THAT WE HAVE ALREADY IMPLEMENT IT FROM THINGS WE HAVE SEEN? I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS WE HAVE SEEN. SOME PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH THE CAMPBELL PLOT FROM 2012, WHICH WAS THE FIRST BIG INSTALLATION. MID-2012 THERE WAS A FIRE ON BOARD. THIS HAS BEEN IN OPERATION AT EIGHT MONTHS AT THAT POINT, AND IT WAS ESSENTIALLY CAUSED BY REPEATED OVERCHARGING OF THE PACK. WE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT MAKING SURE TO OPERATE IN VOLTAGE LIMIT AND THOSE ARE WELL UNDERSTOOD, AND I WILL NOT GO IN DEPTH INTO THE ROOT CAUSES. THERE IS A REPORT PUBLICLY AVAILABLE ONLINE WHICH GOES IN DEPTH ON IT. THAT REPORT WAS GIVEN BY THE OWNER BUT CONTRIBUTED BY THE INTEGRATOR ON THAT PROJECT AND I BELIEVE THE U.S. COAST GUARD WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN THAT IN WRITING THAT REPORT LOOKING AT WHERE THAT CAME FROM BECAUSE WE WANT TO ENSURE WE LEARN AND TAKE THE APPROPRIATE LESSONS AWAY FROM THAT, THERE WAS -- THEY WORK CONTROLLING THE VOLTAGE ON THE BUS ON A SIGNAL COMING FROM THE PACK SO IF WE GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE BEFORE, WE WERE COMMUNICATING TO THE BUS THE CHARGE AND DISCHARGE LIMITS THAT WE WERE WILLING TO SEE, AND THERE WAS A MISMATCH BY NOT LOOKING AT THE WRONG VOLTAGE BUT THE STATE OF CHARGE, SO IT IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF I HAVE A CELL THAT ONLY WANTS 4.2 VOLTS, ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT IS A PROBLEM, BUT WHEN YOU PUT IT IN SOC TERMS, ALL  AN INCORRECT LOOKUP TABLE -- ALL IT TAK S IS AN INCORRECT LOOKUP TABLE AND YOU ARE HEADING FOR A PROBLEM. A COMMUNICATION TO CHANGE THE CHARGE ALGORITHM NOT TO WORK ON SOC BUT RATHER ON VOLTAGE, WHICH TURNED OUT NOT TO BE IMPLEMENTED. THE PACK CONTROLLERS WHO DO SEE THE VOLTAGE, NOT THE SOC, THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMMITTING THEMSELVES TO OPEN. THEY WERE JUST NOT FOLLOWING THEIR CODE PROPERLY. ANOTHER ISSUE IN THE ALARMS COMING FROM THE EMS TO THE BRIDGE WERE WATERED DOWN. THE BATTERY SYSTEM WOULD SEND A MESSAGE SAYING IT WOULD BE HIGH TEMPERATURE, HIGH VOLTAGE, BUT THEN IT WOULD GET LOST IN A SUMMARY ALARM. THE CREW HAD BEEN SEEING ALARMS FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. THEY WERE CATEGORIZING THEM AS - - SO ONE FAULT BECAME THE OTHER FAULT. THEY WERE SILENCING THE ALARMS. ANOTHER THING THAT CAME UP WAS BECAUSE OF THE PACK SIZING, WE HAVE THE MAXIMUM VOLTAGE WENT TO STICK TO. THEIR IS NO NEED TO SET THE DC BUS HIRE THAN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT -- HIGHER THAN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ABOVE THAT. THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND DURING COMMISSIONING. THERE IS A SUMMARY OF WHAT HAPPENED. SOME OF THE TAKEAWAYS, 100% TESTING OF THE REGRESSION TESTING OF ALL SOFTWARE BUILDS. WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR SHOP NOW IS EVERY TIME THERE IS A NEW SOFTWARE BUILD, IS RUNNING AUTOMATED COALS ALL NIGHT LONG MAKING SURE IT IS TRIGGERING THE PROPER SAFETY. THE OVERHAUL OF THE ALARM AND FAULT ARCHITECTURE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SUMMARY ALARMS WERE NOT DROWNING OUT THE TRUE MESSAGE OF WHAT THE ACTUAL ALARM WAS. A RENEWED FOCUS ON INTEGRATION. REALLY TALKING TO THE INTEGRATORS, MAKING SURE THEY UNDERSTAND JUST HOW OUR SYSTEM WORKS AND HOW TO BEST TALK TO US. THAT IS A TWO-WAY STREET AS WELL. WE HAVE TO MEASURE SURE WE ARE TALKING TO THEM PROPERLY AND THEY ARE TALKING TO US PROPERLY BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE PARTNERS IN MAKING SURE THAT ESS IS DOING THE JOB IT IS A IS INSTALLED TO DO. WE HAVE HAD MORE FOCUS PUT ONTO THAT. ANOTHER THING THAT CAME UP, THERE WAS A PVC DUCTING THAT WAS BEING USED AND DURING THE INCIDENT, IT MELTED. THE RESULTING FIRE IN THE BATTERY ROOM WAS ABLE TO BE EXPORTING ITS OFFGAS ES INTO THE MACHINERY SPACE, WHICH IS A PROBLEM. BY IMPLEMENTING ALL OF THESE, THERE HAVE BEEN NO FURTHER ISSUES AS EVIDENCED BY 35 PLUS MEGAWATT HOURS OF SUCCESSFUL INSTALLS OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS. THAT WAS IN 2011. EVENT AT THE TIME, WITHOUT IT BEING A MAJOR DESIGN POINT, THAT INCIDENT WAS LIMITED TO ONE MODULE. ONE MODULE DID LIFT ITS LID. IT TRIGGERED AT ONE CELL, BUT ALL OF THE CELLS WITHIN THAT MODULE, ALL 24, EVENTUALLY GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE CASCADING OF THE THERMAL RUNAWAY. THE MODULE THAT WAS RIGHT ABOUT IT DID NOT. -- ABOVE IT DID NOT. THERE WAS STILL NO CASCADING THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PACK. LAST POINT ABOUT DESIGNING FOR SAFETY ITSELF TAKING ALL THOSE LEARNINGS, AND WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF THERMAL RUNAWAY TESTING OVER THE YEARS. WE WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WITH THIS EXISTING SYSTEM WHAT THE OPTIMUM FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM LOOKS LIKE, SO WE DID A LOT OF TESTING AS WELL JUST TO MAKE SURE WE WERE PUTTING ALL THE RIGHT SAFETY SYSTEMS IN PLACE. MOVING FORWARD, THIS IS OUR NEWEST PRODUCT. WAS LAUNCHED JUNE 2016 IN AMSTERDAM. CALLED ORCA. WE SEE ORCA POWER ON THE RIGHT. TO THE LEFT OF THAT, WE SEE ORCA ENERGY. SOME OF THE INNOVATIONS INVOLVED IN THIS, WE HAVE DONE AWAY WITH THE CABLING ON THE FRONT. THE POWER AND COMMUNICATIONS ARE PUT INTO THE SPINE ON THE BACK. NOW, WE CAN JUST INSERT A MODULE AND CONNECT AND BEGIN TALKING TO THE PACK CONTROLLER. SO THE ARCHITECTURE OF THIS ONE WAS SIMILAR. IT IS JUST CLEANED UP A LITTLE BIT. I WILL GET TO THE INTERESTING STUFF HERE IN A BIT. ANOTHER THING THAT WE HAVE INTEGRATED IS A VENT DUCTING. IF ONE OF THE CELLS WAS TO OFF GAS IT WOULD ESSENTIALLY PRESSURIZE THE MODULE THAT IT IS IN , LOW PRESSURE RELIEF AND THERE IS A DUCT BUILT IN WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO CONTAIN THE GAS AND THEN YOU COULD ESSENTIALLY PIPES THEM TO SOME OPEN-AIR AREA , FREE OF IGNITION OR PERSONNEL. IN THE TESTING WE HAVE DONE, NO NEED FOR FIRE SUPPRESSION. IN OUR TESTING, WE DIDN'T NEED FIRE SUPPRESSION EVEN IN THE TESTING WE WERE DOING. WHAT THIS MEANS FOR A VESSEL OWNER OR A CLASS IS THAT THERE IS NO ADDITIONAL BURDEN FOR FIRE SUPPRESSION BEYOND WHAT IS IN THE ROOM. AND SO, THIS ALSO FREES UP WHERE WE CAN LOCATE THIS. IN THE PAST WE WOULD HAVE A LOCATED DEDICATED BATTERY ROOM. LOOKING FORWARD, WE COULD HAVE A ROOM TO CO-LOCATE THESE SYSTEMS. OK. JUST AS A QUICK COMPARISON? ON THE LEFT, IF ONE CELL WAS THE FIRST TO GO IN AN ABUSIVE SITUATION, THE HEAT, AS WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE EARLIER ONE, IT WOULD BE ENOUGH TO PROPAGATE TO THE NEIGHBORS AND THAT WILL SET THE WAVE ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, IT WOULD FAN OUT AND CONSUME ALL THE CELLS IN THE MODULE. WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS TO PUT IN ENOUGH ISOLATION THAT IF ONE CELL WHERE TO GO, THE KNAVERY ONE WOULD HEAT UP BUT IT WOULD HEAT UP TO A LEVEL THAT IS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO PUSH THEM INTO THE RUNAWAY. AND WE HAVE DONE THIS TESTING NOW WELL OVER 20 TIMES AND IT WAS WITNESSED. AND I SHOULD ADD THAT THIS COMES WITH NO ACT OF COOLING AS WELL. THESE ARE JUST PASSIVE ELEMENTS. SO YOU ESSENTIALLY GET THE SAME LEVEL OF PROTECTION DURING TRANSIT, INSTALLATION OR OPERATION. I WILL TALK QUICKLY ABOUT THIS TEST. M AND A HAS DEVELOPED A NON-PROPAGATION TESTS THAT THEY WANTED BATTERY SUPPLIERS TO GO THROUGH AS A CONDITION FOR INSTALLATION IN NORWEGIAN INSTALLATION. AND BASICALLY WHAT THIS CALLS FOR, TEST ONE IS WITH NO ADDED MITIGATION IN PLACE. AND WE HAD TO OVERCHARGE TWO CELLS. [INDISCERNIBLE] THESE ARE STAGGERED BY A FEW SECONDS. [INDISCERNIBLE] 

>> SO THIS IS THE MNA PROPAGATION TEST ONE. THAT IS WHAT LOOK LIKE AFTERWARDS. SO ASIDE FROM THE TEST PARAPHERNALIA ATTACHED TO THAT, YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW, NECESSARILY, WHICH MODULE IT WAS THAT HAD UNDERGONE THIS. SO WHAT WE WOUND UP HAVING TO DO WAS TO PUT A THERMAL IMAGE ON IT IN ORDER TO SEE WHICH MODULE IT WAS. AND SO WE HAVE GONE FROM THIS INCIDENT ON THE TUG WHICH ENGULF THE ENTIRE ROOM AND TRANSPORTED THE GASES INTO THE NEIGHBORING ROOM TO THIS. THE GASES WERE ALL DUCTED OUTSIDE. AND WE DID HAVE, IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY, WE HAD TEMPERATURE INDICATING STICKERS ON THE FRONT. THE HIGHEST IT INDICATED WAS 46 CELSIUS. I SHOULD ADD THAT THIS THERMAL IMAGE WAS 70 MINUTES AFTER THE EVENT. IT ALSO SHOWS 46 CELSIUS. THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS THAT WE HAVE A HEAT SINK FOR THE AIR COOLING. THE FRONT PLATE ONLY GOT TO 46 DEGREES BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE PREFERENTIAL HEAT PATH. THE MAXIMUM IT SAW WAS 46 DEGREES. THANK YOU SO MUCH. [APPLAUSE] 

>> THANK YOU. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IS MITCH FROM SPARE POWER SYSTEMS. HE IS THE FOUNDER AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LEADING PRODUCT INNOVATION AND DEVELOPMENT. HE LET THE APPLICATION ENGINEERING AND PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT FOR THE STORAGE DEVELOPMENT TEAMS. HE HAS OVER 15 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN MECHANICAL DESIGN TESTS AND SALES AND MARKETING WITH COMPANIES INCLUDING ACCENTURE. HE ALSO SERVED AS A FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER FOR THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT. HE ALSO HOPED A BS IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING AND IS FLUENT IN FRENCH. SO I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME MITCH. [APPLAUSE] 

>> LET'S SEE IF THIS WORKS. GREAT. I WILL TRY TO KEEP THIS SHORT. I KNOW I AM BETWEEN YOU AND LUNCH AT THIS POINT. WHAT I WILL HIT ON OUR -- I WILL HIT ON DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS IN THE MARINE SPACE. STARTING WITH WHAT JOHN KICKED OFF FOR US THIS MORNING AND THEN TAKING THAT AND IT IS A SPRINGBOARD INTO THE AFTERNOON DISCUSSION WHICH IS THE APPLICATION AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF VESSELS. SO JUST TWO QUICK SLIDES ABOUT OUR COMPANY. SPEAR IS A PRIVATE COMPANY IN MISSOURI. THE LEGACY GOES BACK TO 2005. THE TWO PRIMARY OWNERS LICENSED TECHNOLOGY FROM A KOREAN BATTERY OPERATOR. AND IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST LITHIUM MANUFACTURING PLANTS IN THE UNITED STATES IN 2007. THEY DID A PARTNERSHIP IN 2009 AND I CAME ALONG A LITTLE BIT AFTER THAT. AND IN 2013, SPEAR WAS SPUN OFF AS THE ORIGINAL DEFENSE IN INDUSTRIAL GROUP AS AN INDEPENDENT COMPANY. WHAT IS KEY ABOUT THAT IS THAT OUR CEO DID AN EXCLUSIVE SALES CHANNEL AGREEMENT WITH -- SO WE WERE THE SOLE SUPPLIER FOR THE THREE YEARS THEY DID INITIAL INSTALLATIONS. SO WE PARTICIPATED IN THE SELL SIDE. SO THAT IS OUR EXPOSURE AND EXPERIENCE TO THE MARKETPLACE. SO WHAT DO WE DO? WE ARE NOT A CELL MANUFACTURER. IN THE BATTERY SPACE, YOU START WITH CELLS AND YOU AND THEM SAFE WITH MECHANICAL PACKAGING LIKE RYAN PREVIOUSLY TALKED ABOUT. SO WE HAVE TWO KEY PRODUCTS. WHAT IS THE PACKAGING TECHNIQUE. BOTH OF THESE ARE BROUGHT FROM OUR LEGACY IN THE GRID MARKET. THE IDEA OF ISOLATING TO SINGLE CELLS OR GROUPS OF CELLS IS NEW AND MARINE. IT ISN'T A WIDER INDUSTRY. WE WERE DOING THIS FIVE YEARS AGO ON GRID STORAGE PACKS. SO WE ALSO BROUGHT THAT TO THE MARINE INDUSTRY LAST YEAR WITH OUR PRODUCT LINE. AS WELL AS THE DIRECT PATH WHICH ALSO CAME FROM THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES. I DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT OUR PRODUCTS IN THIS PRESENTATION BUT MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUE IS HERE FOR THE NEXT TWO DAYS SO YOU'RE WELCOME TO GET WITH US TO LEARN MORE. WE ALSO DO CUSTOM BATTERY SOLUTIONS FOR DEFENSE AND OTHER APPLICATIONS. SO. I WANT EVERYONE TO LOOK AT THEIR CELL PHONES. AND THEN LOOK AT THE SCREEN. AND HOW MANY OF THESE THINGS DO YOU HAVE LAYING AROUND YOUR HOUSE, 10 YEARS AGO. THESE ARE THINGS FROM MY ACTUAL HOUSE. MY KIDS ACTUALLY PLAY WITH THE OTHER FOUR ITEMS NOW. I DON'T USE THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY THIS. SIMILARLY, BATTERIES ARE CHANGING AT THE SAME RATE WITH THE CURVE. HOWEVER, NOT ALL BATTERIES ARE THE SAME. HENCE THE REASON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT APPLICATION AND DIFFERENT CHEMISTRIES. THIS IS THE EXAMPLE OF THE BREADTH OF PRODUCTS THAT MY COMPANY WORKS ON. OUR SMALLEST BATTERY IS TO SHOULD BE GOOD FOR OUR KOREAN MANUFACTURING PARTNER FOR DIABETICS. IT LOOKS LIKE A POSTAGE STAMP. IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR THUMBNAIL THAT YOU WEAR ON YOUR BODY AND IT DISTRIBUTES INSULIN AS NECESSARY. VERY ENERGY DENSE. IT DOESN'T NEED POWER AND IT RUNS FOR DAYS. WE DO BATTERIES FOR UNMANNED UNDERWATER VEHICLES. ALSO PRETTY ENERGY DENSE. YOU WANT TO OPTIMIZE THE USE OF THAT SO YOU STICK IT IN THE WATER AND IT RUNS FOR 24 HOURS. THE THINGS THAT TAKE THE LONGEST ARE NOT RECHARGING THE BATTERY BUT IT IS DUMPING DATA TO THE SHIP'S GO BACK AND DO MORE. AND ON THE FAR END OF THAT, NO GREAT PICTURES TO SHARE BUT WE DO BATTERIES FOR HIGH-POWERED LASER SYSTEMS WHICH ARE VERY HIGH-POWERED. JOHN ASKED ABOUT THE DEATH FENCE OF THE POWER BATTERY. AND WE WILL NOT BE GOING TO THAT EXTREME ALTHOUGH FOR DYNAMIC POSITIONING , YOU COULD POTENTIALLY LEVERAGE THAT. SO, LITHIUM ION. I'M NOT GOING TO CHEMISTRY. I AM GOING TO FOCUS ON THREE MAJOR CHEMISTRY GROUPS. AND THEN TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT EATING FEATURES OF THE CHEMISTRIES TOWARD SPECIFIC MARINE APPLICATIONS. WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE MOST POPULAR INSTALLED BASE AND COMMERCIAL MARINE APPLICATION. WE WILL LOOK AT IRON PHOSPHATE, IT A DISTANT NUMBER TWO. AND THEN LITHIUM TITANATE WHICH IS NOT VERY POPULAR IN THE MARINE SPACE AT THE MOMENT BUT IT DOES HAVE SOME APPLICATION IN A FEW SPACES. I WILL HIT -- SOMEONE ASKED ABOUT WHAT A FLOW BATTERY IS. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PRESENTERS TODAY BUT I HAVE THIS CONVENIENT PICTURE OF HOW A BATTERY WORKS. THE IONS BOUNCE BACK AND FORTH AND AS THEY MOVE, A CHANGES THE DIRECTION OF THE ELECTRONS OUTSIDE THE BATTERY. THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FLOW BATTERY AND A LITHIUM ION BATTERY IS THAT INSTEAD OF THE IONS MOVING, THE ACTIVE MATERIALS MOVE. SO THERE ARE SEVERAL OTHER TYPES. WHAT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU IN THE MARINE SPACE ARE FLOW BATTERIES. THEY ARE SIMILAR IN ENERGY DENSITY. THE NUMBERS THAT WERE THROWN OUT FOR YOU AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CONFERENCE ARE LOWER THAN THE COST THAT ARE ACHIEVABLE WITH BATTERIES FOR TODAY'S COMPANIES. AND FLOW BATTERIES ARE INTERESTING FOR THINGS LIKE SHIP DESIGN. BECAUSE THE BATTERY ITSELF COULD BE CONFIRMED. IT COULD BE A TANK OF THE ACTIVE MATERIAL IS MOVING. THE DOWNSIDE IS, THEIR EFFICIENCY IS QUITE POOR. THEY ARE AROUND 75% EFFICIENT AS OPPOSED TO 98% WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD PRACTICALLY GET FOR YOUR ENERGY POWER BLEND OUT OF LITHIUM ION. SO YOU'RE THROWING A LOT OF FUEL OUT THE WINDOW WITH A FLOW BATTERY. ARE IT. MARINE VALUE DRIVERS. THIS IS ANOTHER SHOT THAT WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT JOHN SHOWED US. WE WON'T GO THROUGH ALL OF THE TRADE-OFFS BUT WE WILL LOOK AT ENERGY. DISCHARGE POWER AND CYCLE LIFE. AND HOW THESE DIFFERENT THINGS APPLY TO DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS. ENERGY DENSITY, WE HAVE SEEN THIS ALREADY. WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU? IF YOU PUT A HEAVIER BATTERY ON YOUR BOAT THEN YOUR BOAT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO GET INTO THE WATER AND IT NOW MEANS YOU NEED YET BIGGER BATTERY. SO THE WEIGHT IS A KEY DRIVER FOR NAVAL ARCHITECTS LOOKING AT A BATTERY SYSTEM. ANOTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT THE CELL LEVEL NUMBERS , SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT JOHN SHARED, THIS IS THE CELL LEVEL AND THIS IS ENERGY ON THE BOTTOM. POWER ON THE Y AXIS. WHEN YOU TAKE A CELL AND YOU PUT A PACKAGE AROUND IT, YOU COULD ESSENTIALLY CUT IT IN HALF. THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS THAT GO INTO MAKING THE INDUSTRIAL SOLUTION THAT RYAN WAS TALKING ABOUT. SAY CAN SEE THIS ON OUR PRODUCT LINE. WE DO HAVE DYNAMIC POSITIONING. WE HAVE THE ENERGY SOLUTION. AND THEN WE HAVE THE BALANCE SOLUTION IN THE MIDDLE. THAT. THERE IS THE 700. THE REASON IS THERE IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED THIS ALL THE TIME. AND THIS DOESN'T SOLVE EVERYONE'S PROBLEM ALL THE TIME. SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU PICK THE RIGHT SOLUTION FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING. THIS IS WHEN YOU GO TO PACKAGING. SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW FROM BRIAN'S PRESENTATION, YOU HAVE A CELL AND A BATTERY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM THAT GOES INTO A MODULE AND INTO A PACK OR A BATTERY INC.. WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT YOU START WITH A CELL AND YOU PUT IT INTO A MODULE AND YOU HAVE A HUGE DROP IN THE VOLUME, NOT WEIGHT. BUT THE WAY TO SIMILAR. AND THEN THE STRING, YOU ARE ABOUT ONE FOURTH OF THE BALL IN YOU ARE AT WHEN YOU START WITH A CELL. THAT IS BECAUSE TO ISOLATE THINGS SO THAT THEY DON'T SPREAD WITH AN EVENT TAKES UP SPACE. AND SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. SO, THAT WAS ENERGY DENSITY. WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. THE EVOCATIONS DRIVEN BY THAT OUR ANY KIND OF DISTANCE. YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT DURATION AS ONE OF THE KEY LIMITERS FOR THE TECHNOLOGY TODAY. WELL, THE CELLS AVAILABLE ON THE MARKET TODAY AND THE SOLUTIONS THAT WE HAVE, THE BEST CELLS ON THE MARKET TODAY HAVE THE SAME CYCLE LIFE. SO THE SAME RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT WITH 30 5% MORE ENERGY DENSITY. THAT MEANS YOU GO BUT 35% MORE ON THE BOAT FOR LESS COST AND GET THE SAME LIFE EXPECTATION. THAT IS I YOU SEE THE MARKET MOVING. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE OF THERE BEING THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF CELLS HERE. THIS IS A PLOT OF DISCHARGE. SO THIS IS HOW MUCH BATTERY YOU USED. SO HOW MUCH YOU WOULD DRINK BEFORE YOU FILL IT BACK UP AGAIN, VERSUS CYCLE LIFE ON THE Y AXIS. DOWN HERE YOU HAVE 1000 CYCLES. 10,000, 100,000, ONE MILLION. AND THIS IS A GENERALIZATION. THERE ARE SMALL CYLINDRICAL BATTERY CELLS THAT ARE IN YOUR LAPTOPS AND CELL PHONES. THEY DON'T GET 1000 CYCLES. THEY GET 500. AND THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE OPTIMIZED FOR THE SPECIFIC USE. THAT IN A GENERAL RULE, YOU COULD GET UP TO 3000 CYCLES. IF YOU USE THE WHOLE BATTERY. NOBODY ACTUALLY DOES THAT. EVERY BUDDY USES THEM ON A LIMITED RANGE. SAY YOU USE 90%, YOU MOVE UP THE ACCESS AND YOU SEE HOW MANY CYCLES YOU CAN GET. THE REASON WE BRING THIS UP IS BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A LOT OF VALIUM OR APPLICATIONS EXCEPT WHEN YOU GET A P. AND THE REASON IS THAT IF YOU TRY TO INSTALL A PHOSPHATE BATTERY AND IT GOES BACK AND FORTH 30 TIMES A DAY OR 50 TIMES A DAY, YOU COULD HAVE 80,000-250,000 CROSSINGS IN 10 YEARS. SO YOUR LOOKING AT 250,000 UP HERE, WHICH WAS A RECENT BOOK PROJECT WE WORKED ON, YOU MIGHT NEED TO HAVE 10-15% OF A DISCHARGE ON A PHOSPHATE BATTERY. WHICH MEANS IF THAT IS YOUR GLASS OF WATER, YOU ARE ONLY DRINKING THAT LITTLE BIT OFF THE TOP SO YOU AREN'T USING THE HOLDING YOU PAID FOR. ON TITANATE, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO GET AWAY WITH THE SAME SORT OF MAGNITUDE WITH A 25% DEFICIT CHARGE. IF YOU CAN PUT IN A BATTERY THAT IS THREE QUARTERS OF THE ENERGY NOW IT IS SMALLER AND CHEAPER. SO THIS IS WHERE CYCLE LIFE COMES THE PLAY AND STARTS TO DRIVE THE VALUE OF THE DISCUSSION. SO HERE IS A CYCLE LIFE EXAMPLE. 76 THOUSAND CYCLES, YOU SEE THE EXAMPLES IN THE NUMBERS THAT I WAS SHARING, IF YOU USE 50% OF THE BATTERY WHICH IS USABLE VERSUS 23% FOR THE PHOSPHATE, THESE NUMBERS GUATEMALA LITTLE BIT BASED ON THE SIZE THEMSELVES AND HOW MAY THINGS YOU CAN CRAM INTO THE BOX. YOU SEE HERE IN THE DESIGN CYCLE, THE VALUE IS OFFERED TO THE CONSUMER. WE WILL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CHARGING. CHARGING IS A KEY METRIC IF YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING LIKE A HYBRID. THIS ISN'T AS BIG OF A DRIVER. BUT IF YOU ARE DOING AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE OR A PLUG-IN VEHICLE, YOU WANT YOUR BOAT TO STAY ALONGSIDE THE PORT AS SHORT AS POSSIBLE. AND THIS IS A KEY LIMITER OF TECHNOLOGY. JOHN TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE IDEA OF THE GRAPHITE OR CARBON WHICH IS USED. THAT IS THE LIMITING FACTOR IN THE CHARGE RATE FOR MOST CELLS TODAY. IT ALLOWS FOR A HIGHER CHARGE RATE. THIS IS A PICTURE OF A MICRON SNAPSHOT OF A PRIMATE PARTICLE. THIS IS A 10 MICRON PICTURE OF A CARBON PARTICLE. WHEN YOU CAN SEE IS ALL THE DIFFERENT BUMPS ALONG THE SURFACE OF THE PARTICLE. ALL OF THAT IS THE ADDITIONAL SURFACE AREA FOR THE LITHIUM ION FOR A BONDING WITH THE LTO. THAT MEANS YOU CAN PUSH MORE LITHIUM-ION INTO THAT SIDE OF THE CELL FASTER. AND SO YOUR CHARGE RATE IS LIMITED BY THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION AND NOT BY THE ACTIVE MATERIAL. IN A GRAPHITE-BASED CELL, IT IS LIMITED BY THE ACTIVE MATERIAL AND NOT BY THE CONSTRUCTION. SO TODAY, MOST PEOPLE MAKE LTO CELLS THAT HAVE BETWEEN 4-10 C CHARGE CAPABILITY. THEY COULD BE BUILT FOR MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT THAT THE AUTOMOTIVE SPACE HAS NOT BEEN DEMANDING THAT SO IT ISN'T BEING PUSHED. I DON'T THINK GOING PAST THAT IS PRACTICAL. BUT IT IS PRACTICAL FOR OTHER SPECIALTY APPLICATIONS. SO THE CHARGE RATE EXAMPLE. IF YOU LOOKED AT A CRANE, THIS IS A PICTURE OF A PLATFORM. IF YOU LOOK AT THAT TYPE OF APPLICATION WHERE YOU WANT TO RECOVER ENERGY QUICKLY THAN YOU COULD PUT A MUCH SMALLER BATTERY IN BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO OVERSIGHT THE BATTERY SO YOU CAN GET ALL THE ENERGY YOU NEED BACK INTO IT DURING THE THREE MINUTES IF YOU WERE AT THE SIDE OF THE DOCK OR, IN THE CASE OF A CRANE, YOU DON'T LOWER THE LOAD FOR 25 MINUTES. YOU LOWER PER SECOND. SO THESE BATTERIES OFFER A GREATER TYPE OF VALUE THERE. THE VOLTAGE RESPONSE. SOMETHING YOU PROBABLY DON'T THINK ABOUT MUCH AT ALL. WE ARE GETTING INTO THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT. THAT IF YOU LOOK AT POWER APPLICATIONS, THE VOLTAGE CURVE HAVE A DIFFERENT SHAPE. SO THE MIXED OXIDE BATTERIES WITH THE IRON PHOSPHATE LIKE WAS TALKED TO EARLIER, THEY HAVE THE SHAPE. MORE OF A LINEAR, 30 DEGREE SLOPE. IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERIES HAVE THIS SHAPE. IT IS MORE FLAT AND SEEK ON THE EDGES. THERE ARE PROS AND CONS TO BOTH. IRON PHOSPHATE, YOU CAN'T USE FULL TOUCH CORRELATION. YOU HAVE TO DO OTHER THINGS. WITH THE LTO BATTERY, HOWEVER, YOU CAN SEE THE AVERAGE VOLTAGE CHANGES. WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT? IF YOU ARE DOING A LARGE SUPPLY TO THE LOAD, YOUR VOLTAGE DROP MEANS YOU CAN TAKE ONE OF THESE GUYS OUT OF CONTENTION BEFORE YOU HAVE GOTTEN ALL OF THE JUICE OUT OF THE BATTERY. SO I MIGHT HAVE A FULL GLASS AND YOU ABLE TO USE THAT POWER BUT THE BATTERY IS PRACTICALLY LIMITED BY THE POWER OF ELECTRONICS TO TAKE THAT AND GIVE IT TO THE ELECTRIC MOTOR OR TO PUT IT BACK THE OTHER DIRECTION. SO A BIG THING WE SEE AN APPLICATION IS THAT THE VOLTAGE RANGE BECOMES NARROW. BECAUSE INNOVATORS ARE LOOKING TO DESIGN THEIR PRODUCTS. SO SOMETIMES, IRON PHOSPHATE IS AN ADVANTAGE FOR POWER APPLICATIONS BECAUSE YOU CAN DEFINE WHAT THE VOLTAGE RATE IS IN SUCH A WAY TO GET EVERY LAST DROP OF ENERGY OUT. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CUTTING IT OFF EARLY. SO THAT IS IMPORTANT AS WE GET INTO POWER APPLICATIONS LIKE RESERVES AND DYNAMIC POSITIONING. ALL RIGHT. IN SUMMARY. IF YOU LOOK AT THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHEMISTRIES, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT USES IN DIFFERENT PLACES. SO THIS IS THE HIGHEST ENERGY DENSITY. VERY COST EFFECTIVE. A GOOD BALANCE OF THE POWER EFFECTIVENESS. SO IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE FOR THE PLUG-IN SYSTEM WHERE THE WEIGHT IS REALLY DRIVING THE BATTERY OF THE BOAT. IT ALSO MAKES SENSE FOR A LOW PROFILE AND RESEARCH. AGAIN, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE FOCUSED ON RANGE. FOR PHOSPHATE, IT IS THE MOST VALUE IN A DISCHARGE CAPABILITY. AND THEN THE TITANATE, IT MAKES THE MOST SENSE FOR ENERGY RECAPTURE APPLICATIONS LIKE CRANES OR FOR THE SUPER HIGH CHARGE RATES WITH THE SHORT ROUTE SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO LONG DISTANCES. THAT IS IT. [APPLAUSE] 

>> I HAVE A PROCESS QUESTION. WE ARE 15 MINUTES BEHIND THE SCHEDULE. DO YOU WANT TO KEEP MARCHING THROUGH THE AGENDA? DO YOU WANT TO CUT SOMETHING OUT? OK, WE WILL DO THE TECHNOLOGY PANEL Q&A FOR 20 MINUTES? SHORTEN IT? COME ON BACK UP. THIS IS THE QUEUE AND DAY FOR THE TECHNOLOGY PANEL. IS THERE A MOBILE MICROPHONE WE CAN USE? ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? OH, RIGHT HERE. MAYBE I COULD START WITH MY FAVORITE QUESTION. ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON , THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT SAFETY ASSOCIATED WITH THE EVENT OF A FIRE. BUT WHAT CAUSES THE RUNAWAY IN THESE SYSTEMS? WHAT CAUSES THE FIRE IN THE FIRST PLACE? AND I KNOW THIS MAY BE A BIT QUESTION BUT MAYBE A SOMEWHAT BRIEF ANSWER? WHAT CAUSES THE FIRE? 

>> I WILL GIVE THE VERY SHORT ANSWER. ACTUALLY IT WAS SAID DURING HIS TALK. MECHANICAL, THERMAL AND ELECTRICAL ABUSE. ALL OF THOSE THINGS WILL CAUSE A FIRE. OVERCHARGE ULTIMATELY LEADS TO INTERNAL ABUSE WITH THE CELL, SO IT SENDS TO A THERMAL RUNAWAY. MECHANICAL TRAUMA AND HEAT. THE SEPARATOR MELTS AND THE ELECTRODES COME INTO CONTACT. SO ULTIMATELY, A SHORT INSIDE THE CELL THROUGH ABUSE. 

>> I WOULD ONLY ADD TO THAT THAT WHEN THE INTERNAL SHORT HOUSE IS USING ITS OWN INTERNAL ENERGY, THAT COULD FURTHER BOOST THE TEMPERATURE UP. SO OFTENTIMES, WHAT YOU WOULD SEE AS WAS MENTIONED BEFORE, THE TYPICAL 120 DEGREES IS SORT OF THE CUT OFF POINT FOR THE TYPICAL SEPARATOR. SO THE PROGRESSION WOULD GENERALLY BE IF THE SEPARATOR IS GOING TO MELT AT 120 DEGREES, WHEN THE SEPARATOR MELTS IT ALSO SHRINKS BACK. SO IT CREATES THE OPPORTUNITY WHERE HE SURE CAN HAPPEN. AND SO IF THERE IS ENOUGH ENERGY IN THE CELL AT THAT POINT THAT COULD FEED INTO THAT SHORT IT RAISES THE HEAT. SO A MELTING SEPARATOR MAY CAUSE THAT. A SHORT CIRCUIT MAY RAISE THE TEMPERATURE HIGH ENOUGH TO THE POINT WHERE IT BREAKS DOWN. AND THAT ESSENTIALLY IS VERY CHEMISTRY DEPENDENCE I WON'T GO INTO THAT FOR A MUCH. BUT AT THAT POINT, THAT IS WHERE YOU WOULD SEE THE DRAMATIC HEAT SPIKE. 

>> LET'S GET A MICROPHONE? 

>> AT THE CELL LEVEL, THAT MAKES SENSE. SO AT A SYSTEM LEVEL ARE LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, WHAT CAUSES THE THERMAL RUNAWAY? ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE CELL LEVEL ARE CAUSED BY FAILURE AT DIFFERENT POINTS. SO AS A SYSTEM INTEGRATOR, IF IT GOT TO THE CELL LEVEL, SOMETHING ELSE FAILED DRASTICALLY. SO WHAT CAUSES THE THERMAL RUNAWAY? MY QUESTION IS, WHAT SHOULD YOU GUYS BE LOOKING AT FROM YOUR END WITH BATTERY MANAGEMENT AT YOUR SYSTEM LEVEL WHICH PREVENTS IT FROM GETTING DOWN TO THE CELL LEVEL AND WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING AND LOOKING AT SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN? I DON'T KNOW, I SEE IT DIFFERENT THAN AT THE CELL PHONE LEVEL -- THEN AT THE CELL LEVEL. 

>> I GUESS I WOULD SAY THAT WHERE THIS CAME FROM AS FAR AS DOING THE TESTING. IF WE KNEW IT COULD BE CONTAINED BY SYSTEM APPROACHES THEN THAT IS WHERE WE WOULD HAVE ESSENTIALLY GONE TO. SO ONE OF THE OTHER ASPECTS IS THAT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THERE TO BE A LATENT CELL DEFECT FOR MANUFACTURING. IN WHICH CASE THROUGH AGING YOU MAY GET A SHORT CIRCUIT WHICH MAY OCCUR WHICH COULD LEAD US TO THAT PATHWAY OF HAVING A THERMAL RUNAWAY. SO IT IS A VERY LOW LIKELIHOOD BUT IT IS A NONZERO PROBABILITY. SO AS FAR AS RISK ASSESSMENT GOES, WE HAVE TO PUT IN THE MITIGATIONS TO ADDRESS THAT. SO I GUESS I GO BACK TO WHAT WAS SAID. THE FDNY SAFETY APPROACH THAT FIRES DO HAPPEN. AND WE ARE FORCED TO TAKE THE SAME APPROACH AS WELL. THERE ARE OTHER MITIGATIONS THAT WE DO ADDRESS WITH THIS. WE STILL WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THOSE IN PLACE. 

>> INC. YOU FOR THAT. NEXT QUESTION. A QUESTION ON THE EMPLOYMENT AND APPLICATION. FOR THE HIGH SEA RATE DISCHARGE APPLICATION. I WILL POINT FOR YOU IS THE CUT OFF FOR WATER COOLING? AND WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF ONE OVER THE OTHER? 

>> VERY CELL DEPENDENT. SO DEPENDING ON THE CELL AND THE CELLS GEOMETRY AND THE CONSTRUCTION AND THE GENERATION, IT MIGHT MOVE. SO A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE THAT IS VERY COMMON FOR JOHN AND BRIAN, SO THE EXALT STYLE IN TRADITIONAL PACKAGING THAT WE HAD, THE .6 C RATE WAS WHERE AIR COOLING DIDN'T WORK. WE HAD TO HAVE FORCED AIR. 1.2 IS WHERE WE WENT TO LIQUID. BUT DON'T FIX THOSE IN YOUR MIND. BECAUSE THAT IS ONE CELL WITH ONE ARCHITECTURE. SO THOSE NUMBERS MOVE UP AND DOWN. LIQUID COOLING IS MORE EFFICIENT. IT HAS A HIGHER LOAD ON THE SYSTEM. IT HAS OTHER TRADE-OFFS AND THINGS THAT DO COME WITH IT. WHEN WE, AIR COOLING IS A LOWER COST. SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW YOU ARE USING THE APPLICATION. WE ALL TALKED ABOUT DUTY CYCLES. THE CELL DOES IT NEED -- EARLY, THE AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY DAYS, WE THOUGHT THERE WAS A ONE OR TWO DEGREE DIFFERENTIAL. OBVIOUSLY, AS TIGHT AS YOU CAN KEEP YOURSELVES IN TERMS OF THE TEMPERATURE GRADIENT, THE LONGER THEY WILL LAST BUT IF YOUR CELL WARMS 10 DEGREES DURING A SPECIFIC TYPE OF LOAD AND THEN IT COOLS, THAT CAN BE OK, DEPENDING ON THE LIFECYCLE. SO YOU MAY HAVE A TRADE-OFF. YOU MAY DECIDE TO AIR COOL SOMETHING. YOU MAY DECIDE TO LET IT COOLER DURING A CERTAIN PART OF THE USAGE. THEN IT'LL HAVE A RECOVERY TIME LATER IN THE DAY. SO IT MAY COOL LOVE WHILE YOU ARE POWERING THE BOAT. BECAUSE IT IS A LOWER DRAW. 

>> THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO THAT IS THE USAGE PROFILE. IF YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING THAT HAS A LOT OF DISCHARGES, THAT IS WHAT WILL DRIVE YOU TO WANT TO REMOVE THAT HEAT FAST BECAUSE IT WILL DRAW INTO THE PREVIOUS QUESTION, FORCING IT TO THE THERMAL RUNAWAY. SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO START GENERATING HEAT, REMEMBER IT IS AN XO THERMIC REACTION. YOU WILL START GENERATING HEAT. SO THE MORE YOU TRY TO USE IT WHETHER IT IS CHARGING OR DISCHARGING IT RAPIDLY, THAT WILL GENERATE HEAT AND IT WILL DRIVE YOU TO LOOK AT ALTERNATIVE COOLING SOLUTIONS. 

>> ANOTHER QUESTION? 

>> I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS. I LIKE YOUR DEVICE. IT LOOKS USEFUL TO PREVENTING THE THERMAL RUNAWAY. BUT FOR THE DECOMPOSITION OF ELECTROLYTES, DOES THIS ALSO DEPEND ON WHEN THE CELL BACK POPS OPEN? RIGHT? 

>> THAT IS CORRECT. BUT THESE VARIANTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THAT THE ELECTROLYTE SPECIES ARE EVOLVING FROM THE CELLS MUCH SOONER THAN ANY THERMAL EVENT. SO THERE IS EITHER A DEFECT IN THE BATTERY OR THE CELL OR THROUGH INTENTIONAL VENTING OF THE CELL. WE DO TEND TO SEE LOW LEVELS OF ELECTRODES WELL IN ADVANCE OF ANY TYPE OF THERMAL EVENT. 

>> WITH A CELL PACK, THE CELLS ARE VERY STRONG. CAN YOU STILL DETECT? 

>> THE EXPERIENCE THAT WE HAVE IS THAT YES, WE CAN. THE MOVIE THAT I TRIED TO SHOW THAT DIDN'T WORK, THAT WAS EXACTLY POUCH CELL. NEXT THEY DO. ANOTHER QUESTION? 

>> CAN WE TAKE A QUESTION FROM ONE OTHER PERSON? I DOES WANT TO GIVE OTHER FOLKS A CHANCE. WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM ONLINE? GOING ONCE? GO AHEAD. 

>> THANK YOU. YOU MENTIONED THE CELL ALSO BREAKS WHEN IT CHARGES ITSELF BACK WHEN THE CELL GETS AGED? SO IS THERE A PRESSURE FORCE RATED FOR THE CELL? 

>> YES, A VERY GOOD QUESTION. MOST CELL MANUFACTURER SHOULD BE HELD TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH PRESSURE YOU NEED TO PUT ON THE CELL. TYPICALLY WHAT YOU WANT TO BE A OLD TO DO AND I THINK MY COLLEAGUES CAN PROBABLY ADD TO THIS AS WELL, YOU WANT TO BE A LOT OF BUT A CONSISTENT PRESSURE ALONG THE ENTIRE BASE OF THE CELLS ARE THAT THEY DON'T GET UNABLE -- GET UNEVEN GROWTH. BECAUSE THAT WILL START DRIVING THE LIGHT. SO YOU WANT TO CREATE AN EVEN PRESSURE ACROSS THE ENTIRE BASE OF THE CELL THAT GROWS AS THE CELL GROWS. SO AS THE CELL GROWTH, YOU WANT TO BE A WILL TO MANAGE THAT TO A MAXIMUM GROWTH THROUGH THE LIGHT OF THE CELL. 

>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, FOLKS. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTIONS. IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. THE TECHNOLOGY GAP AGENDA. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, PANEL. [APPLAUSE] 

>> ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW, AFTER HE LOOKED AT THE TECHNOLOGY PRESENTATION, HOPEFULLY SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED. YOU CAN ASK THOSE QUESTIONS DURING THE LUNCH BREAK. AT YOUR TABLES, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK AMONGST YOUR GROUPS. AT FIRST, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU HAVE LEARNED OR THAT WAS DIFFERENT THAN YOUR EXPECTATIONS, SHARE THEM WITH EACH OTHER. AND THEN I WANT YOU TO SHARE WITH THE LARGER GROUPS. IDENTIFY SOME KEY GAPS IN THE TYPES OF TECHNOLOGY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WHERE YOU FEEL THAT THE SOLUTIONS THAT WERE DISCUSSED THIS MORNING DO NOT MEET THE NEEDS OF THE VESSELS ARE APPLICATIONS THAT YOU WORK ON. SO THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO AT THE TABLE. THEY ARE A KEY GAPS IN THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE WENT OVER THIS MORNING, WHERE YOU SAY THAT JUST WHAT WORKED FOR ME. IT WON'T HANDLE MY LOAD PROFILE. IT IS TOO BIG OR TOO HEAVY. THE RISK IS TOO HIGH. ANYTHING LIKE THAT, LET'S IDENTIFY THOSE AND WE WILL SHARE THOSE BY TABLE AFTER A FEW MINUTES. 

>> A FEW SECONDS TO WRAP UP AND THEN WE WILL SHARE THE GAPS WITH THE GROUP. 

>> ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY. IT IS TIME TO SHARE THE GAPS THAT YOUR TABLE DISCUSSED. SO WE WILL COME AROUND WITH THE MICROPHONE. DO WE HAVE ANY VOLUNTEERS TO TELL US THE GAPS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED? 

>> WE HAD A LITTLE DIFFICULTY WITH THE TASK. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IS THE LACK OF STANDARD APPLICATION AND TECHNOLOGY. THE SHIPS DON'T REALLY SPEAK IN TERMS OF WHAT HOURS, NORMALLY. YOU WOULD JUST SAY THAT THIS EQUIPMENT IS HORSEPOWER . SO WE HAVE TO BRIDGE THAT GAP. 

>> NEXT. 

>> WE DIDN'T HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT LITHIUM-ION BATTERY SAFETY, WE ARE FOCUSED ON THE OPERATION. WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS STILL ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY RANGE OR DURATION WE WOULD EXPECT. SO IF THERE ARE APPLICATIONS THAT BRIAN CAN SPEAK TO? HOW LONG, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD THAT BATTERY PACK HAVE POWER? SORRY TO THIRD QUESTION TO YOU THAT WAY. 

>> THANK YOU. IT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION. BECAUSE THE CAPACITY SPEAKS YOU MOVING FROM A POWER READING TO AN ENERGY RATING. SO KILOWATTS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CAPACITY IN MEGAWATT HOURS. SO IF YOU COMPARE THE CAPACITY OF A PACK, WE ARE LIMITED IN THAT ONE MOMENT IN TIME WITH HOW MUCH WE COULD DELIVER AND SAYING WE WOULD DRAIN IT DOWN TO ZERO TO KEEP OFF THE ROCKS. WE HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ENERGY AND YOU ARE WILLING TO USE ALL OF IT. THIS IS LIMITED ONLY BY THE AMOUNT OF FUEL THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR TANKS. AND SO, I GUESS TO ADD SOME CONTEXT TO THE QUESTION, IT BECOMES POWER OUTPUT WITH SAYING HOW MUCH WE COULD PROVIDE THAT SAME POWER BEFORE WE RUN INTO TEMPERATURE LIMITATIONS. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 

>> THANK YOU. IS THIS WORKING? A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE WAS THE TEAM RATE, AS A GAP. ONE OF US IDENTIFIED THAT AS STILL BEING LOW FOR SOME APPLICATIONS. POSSIBLY HIGH-POWER APPLICATIONS. ANOTHER ONE WAS ANOTHER ONE WAS A CONSISTENT AND CLEAR -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT REITERATION'S. THE COAST GUARD AND OTHERS. THERE IS A LOT OF CROSSOVER BUT I WOULD SAY THERE IS LESS CONSISTENCY. THERE IS A LITTLE UNEVENNESS IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING. FROM DIFFERENT REGULATORY AGENCIES. 

>> THERE WERE SOME INTERESTING IDEAS BROUGHT UP ON THE SAFETY ISSUE. BASED ON THE BILL THAT WE HAVE ART HE DONE ALREADY. NUMBER ONE, ON THE ISSUE OF EXTINCTION THE FLAME, IF YOU HAVE AN EXTINCTION THAT, THE COAST GUARD WANTS TO KNOW WHEN THE VENTILATION WAS SECURED IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH THE FM 300. AND WE SAID, THAT IS GREAT BUT WE WANT THE VENTILATION TO COOL THE FORMAL EVENT. SO I THINK IT IS JUST A PROCESS OF DEVELOPING REGULATIONS BASED ON INFORMATION PRESENTED IN A WORKSHOP LIKE THIS AND JUST COMMON SENSE. IF COOLING IS THE WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS AND THAT IS BEST ISSUE RAISED, USING HIS WRINKLE OR SYSTEM, THAT IS THE IDEA THAT YOU WOULD GO FORWARD WITH. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK US BASED ON THE FIRST DESIGN THAT WE DID WAS THAT IN OUR BATTERY COMPARTMENT, AND ENERGY SYSTEM, WE HAD THE CONTROLLER AND THE BATTERY. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE COLLATERAL DAMAGE, YOU TAKE EVERY THING OUT OF THE BATTERY AND WE HAD A SYSTEM IN THE BATTERY SPACE AND WE HAD THE PACK CONTROLLER IN THE BATTERY SPACE. SO WHAT EFFECT ON THIS, TALKING WITH THE COAST GUARD AND BATTERY MANUFACTURERS, THE DESIGN TAKES ON A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT IDEA FROM NORMAL SHIP DESIGN. ACTUALLY, WE TELL OUR OPERATING SYSTEM, DON'T FIGHT THE FIRE. DON'T ENTER THE SPACE. 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> SO THERE WAS A COMMON MESSAGE HERE FROM US WHICH WAS THAT THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH THE PROFILES THAT THE OPERATORS TALK ABOUT. IN TERMS OF POWER . THERE ARE SOME DISCREPANCIES IN THE LANGUAGE THAT WE SPEAK. I WILL DISAGREE THAT WE ARE NOT MOVING FROM KILOWATTS TO KILOWATT HOURS AS THE STANDARD. WE NEED THE KILOWATTS TO DO THE WORK. SO WE HAVE TO MENTION THE EMPTY STORAGE. SO I THINK WE NEED TO TALK IN TERMS OF THIS STORAGE SYSTEM. HOW DOES THIS WORK? THERE ARE THINGS I'M NOT CLEAR ABOUT. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME, IN TERMS OF A DESIGN LIFE. A 10 YEAR DESIGN LIFE? IF TECHNOLOGY LAST 10 YEARS, HOW DOES THAT EQUATE TO WARRANTY? SECONDLY, HOW MANY STAGES OF EVOLUTION IS THAT GOING TO GO THROUGH IN 10 YEARS? AND IS THIS LOWER CAPACITY AND LOWER COST AND REPLACING THE TECHNOLOGY WITH THAT AT THE END OF THREE YEARS? SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WAY IS BUT THERE ARE SOME GAPS THERE IN TERMS OF HOW WE THINK TODAY AND WE NEED TO BE THINKING IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS WITH TECHNOLOGY. 

>> WE HAD A LITTLE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE GASSING IN THE CELL. THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ABUSE THE CELLS. IT IS VERY DEPENDENT ON HOW YOU ABUSE THE CELLS. IF YOU RAPIDLY OVERCHARGE IT OR IF YOU HEATED UP, YOU WOULD HAVE DIFFERENT SPECTRUM ATTEMPTS? ON HOW YOU ABUSE IT? WHAT IS THE CORRECT USE WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO USE IT? 

>> THANK YOU. 

>> ALL RIGHT. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO NOW IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS LIST OF GAPS THAT YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SEE FROM THE BACK OF THE ROOM, I WANT YOU TO GO THROUGH AS A GROUP AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR OPINION -- YOU COULD DO THIS BY RAISING YOUR HAND. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT OF THESE TECHNOLOGY GAPS THAT WE DISCUSSED? I WILL READ THEM OFF QUICKLY. AND THAT WE CAN VOTE ON WHICH ONE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. THE FIRST ONE IS THE LACK OF A STANDARDIZED LANGUAGE. . THE SECOND ONE IS DURATION. THE ABILITY TO HAVE ENOUGH FUEL IN THE TANK TO GO THE DISTANCE. THE THIRD ONE IS THAT THERE IS INSUFFICIENT POWER. THE FOURTH ONE IS CONSISTENT REGULATORY GUIDANCE ACROSS DIFFERENT PLACES WHERE IT COMES FROM. THE TRADE-OFF FROM WHAT THE GUYS AT THE BACK WERE SHARING? THAT IS JUST THE OPTIMIZATION OF THE TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS. . ANYONE OTHER ONE IS BALANCING THE. AND THE THIRD ONE IS WHAT DO WE NEED BE TRYING TO AVOID? WHO THINKS THE LANGUAGE IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE? ANYBODY? DURATION? PRETTY EQUAL. THE POWER TO LOW? INSUFFICIENT POWER? OK, THAT IS THE HIGHEST SO FAR. REGULATORY GUIDANCE? THE MOST. THE VENTILATION AND SUPPRESSION OPTIMIZATION? LIFE AND OPTIMIZATION? A FEW, OK. AND WHAT ARE WE CHECKING? WHAT TYPE OF GAS OR ABUSE? A COUPLE, ALL RIGHT. THE HIGHEST ONE ISRAEL'S RIGHT GUIDANCE. I THINK POWER IS THE SECOND ONE? IT WAS A TIE BETWEEN A STANDARDIZED LANGUAGE AND THE ITERATION? SO, WHEN WE GET INTO TOMORROW, AFTER TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS AS AFTERNOON, AND WE TALK TO THE SYSTEMS INTEGRATORS TOMORROW MORNING AND REDO THE WRAPUP EXERCISE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOW WE CAN ADDRESS THESE GAPS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THE WORKSHOP. THANK YOU FOR THAT AND PUT. IS IT LUNCH ? 

>> WE WILL HAVE A WORKING LUNCH. IT IS CUT SHORT BECAUSE WE HAVE SPENT SOME EXTRA TIME NOW. HALFWAY THROUGH LUNCH, I WILL HAVE THE DOCTOR GIVE A PRESENTATION. SO WHILE YOU ARE HAVING LUNCH , WE WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION. RIGHT NOW, WE ARE GOING TO BREAK FOR LUNCH. THANK YOU.